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Old 09-28-2011, 10:49 AM
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No type F ATF, what can I use?

Over here there no longer exists type F ATF, what else can I use in a C4 ?

there are Dexron II, III, Mercon III, V and VI, and CVT's WS fluids available on the market here.

nearly imposible to buy trick shift or the like fluids due to the restrictions on shipping by the airlines, so no luck importing those from the USA.

what are you guys using in your C4's?

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Old 09-28-2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto
Over here there no longer exists type F ATF, what else can I use in a C4 ?

there are Dexron II, III, Mercon III, V and VI, and CVT's WS fluids available on the market here.

nearly imposible to buy trick shift or the like fluids due to the restrictions on shipping by the airlines, so no luck importing those from the USA.

what are you guys using in your C4's?
Do you have FA?

Also - many Toyota's, Mazda, Saab, Volvo and other Japanese and European vehicles used F or FA.

You can probably use Dextron, but not Mercon
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:07 PM
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nope, only the above,

I remenber people saying that you can use ford ATF on GM trans but not GM ATF on Ford trans, the static and dynamic coeficient of friction are the oposite.

Don't know if it's true, but my old transmission class teacher told me to put type F in my TH350 to get firmer shifts, it did shifted harder.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:34 PM
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Mobil 1 synthetic ATF exceeds ford type F. If avalible that interchanges.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by spinn
Mobil 1 synthetic ATF exceeds ford type F. If avalible that interchanges.
I've been told that, but as fussy as most Ford auto transmission are with ATF, I am reluctant to recommend especially when the Exxon/Mobil web site appears to specifically exclude F/FA, but mentioning Mercon V which is not interchangeable.

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Old 09-29-2011, 09:33 PM
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Makes no difference, but its on the label.
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:23 AM
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over the web I have found several mentions about Mercon III being an improved type F and that it can be used in the C4.

could this be true?

anyone have heard of this?
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Old 09-30-2011, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by spinn
Makes no difference, but its on the label.
You would be correct - but Ford stopped production of the C4 in '83. That label states 1988 and when Ford, with EOD's started going to Mercon ATF.
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Old 09-30-2011, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto
over the web I have found several mentions about Mercon III being an improved type F and that it can be used in the C4.

could this be true?

anyone have heard of this?
Agusto - This from Chevron has about the best write up about ATF I found. As far as finding it on a car forum web site other then here, I probably would not listen. Some have used other ATF's in their C4's, and not had a problem, but how can anyone recommend an alternate without full knowledge of possible consequences. I can't imagine what a rebuild, just for parts is in Ecuador - here it's over $200 USD

You must have a local Toyota dealer - those are everywhere - and many of them used 'F'. Talk to their service guys and see what they use for older Toys.

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Old 09-30-2011, 03:04 PM
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funny thing, I'm the owner of a Toyota dealership repair shop over here, but auto trans have never been popular here, not until the hybrids showed up but they use CVT's with their unique WS fluid, there is no ATF on the parts bins here.

American cars have always had auto trans so they are not unknow here, in fact a trans kit ( a pizza box we call 'em) for a C4 runs for $180, no big deal, all people I know are using Dexron II or whatever red oil they find in their trans, even hidraulic oil, no failures so far, but they do shift mushy, I would like something as close to type F as possible.

Well according to your link I can't use Mercon, so I'm kinda stuck...
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto
funny thing, I'm the owner of a Toyota dealership repair shop over here, but auto trans have never been popular here, not until the hybrids showed up but they use CVT's with their unique WS fluid, there is no ATF on the parts bins here.

American cars have always had auto trans so they are not unknow here, in fact a trans kit ( a pizza box we call 'em) for a C4 runs for $180, no big deal, all people I know are using Dexron II or whatever red oil they find in their trans, even hidraulic oil, no failures so far, but they do shift mushy, I would like something as close to type F as possible.

Well according to your link I can't use Mercon, so I'm kinda stuck...
Agusto - pack you suitcase and your tool box and move North

From what I see, you build thing from what we call junk. Makes me wonder what you could do in the US with places like Summit, Jegs and Speedway only a phone call or internet click away and delivery 2 days later without customs delays and duty costs.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:26 PM
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If I had a junkyard like the ones you guys have up there next to my house and Summit stuff arrived to my door next day, I bet you a million bucks America would know my name, man how I wish we had here the comodities you guys take for granted, say finding a 69 camaro is harder than finding a honest politician.

But I love my country and try to have fun with wathever is around, for instance to build my ElCamino I took a 1981 Malibu sedan and cut the rear part of the cab and made a pickup bed, it looks genuine, I'm in the process of converting a 4 door '63 Nova into a 2 door coupe, is looking great, also I have the cut lines traced to do the same 4 to 2 door conversion to my '46 Fleetmaster Chevy, this is gonna be a real hard job, but will be fantastic, I make my own lift kits for my customers and pretty much fabricate all kind of stuff, sometimes is more fun making-it than bolting-on it, but not everything can be fabricated, Summit is still the place that best serves our market, takes a long time and have to pay around 22% custom duties, but the most expensive part is the one you can not get.

About the original ATF question some people say they use 0W-20 motor oil, sounds strange using motor oil, but I have that oil here, the Toyota Highlander and Prius Hybrids use it. Now I'm more confused...
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:35 PM
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Type F trans oil is simply a low viscosity hydraulic oil with a specific additive package to reduce foaming and provide high detergent properties that meets the spec set out by Ford last in 1967.

With that being said you have to ask yourself what is hydraulic fluid? Simply put it is mineral oil with additives designed for hydraulic system usage. Oldest trick in the racing community is using type F in other transmissions to improve shift quality/firmness.

Why does it work?

Because it has little in it that might modify the frictional qualities of a plain low viscosity mineral oil. Now I would never tell anyone to use any alternative oil in their hydraulic device other than the recommended by the mfg oil but I can tell you that I have personally used straight 10wt hydraulic oil instead of type F in a few transmissions over many thousands of miles with no noticeable deleterious effects or even changes in shift behavior. From my informal viscosity measurements I would estimate that off the shelf type F oil is somewhere between 5-10 wt depending on which brand you test. I've heard people say that trans oil is 15wt but I think that is subjective since many of them are multiple viscosity depending on temperature.

If that gives you any ideas on what kind of alternative oil you can use in your C4 that's great because any farm supply company will have 5 gallon buckets of a great quality low viscosity hydraulic oil with antifoaming agents included in the additive package.

Just don't be surprised when you can not tell the difference between the two, if you can find zero weight mineral oil be prepared for the firmest shifts you have ever felt...is it any surprise a thinner oil would grab harder?

Just don't be going making your own "additive package" from off the shelf cans of miracle oil, most have viscosity improvers and friction modifiers that make oil thicker and more slippery...exactly what you don't want in your transmission.

By the way I am not recommending you put into your transmission that is not recommended by the manufacturer therefore do so at your own risk. But this is a hotrodding website where the nature of the hobby requires innovation and improvisation to achieve specific goals...one of those goals should be educating yourself on what exactly is in those expensive fluids we change so often.

Just don't be surprised when you find out it's low viscosity red colored hydraulic oil.
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:42 PM
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this is a wise comment my friend, I find lots of logic in your comments, as a matter of fact you just reminded me that when I raced shifter karts you know, the ones with motocrosser engines on it, I had burnt the clutch by using exotic oils in the tranny, this includes Mobil 1, best performance was achieved with plain cheap Havoline 10W30 motor oil.

My IH farm tractor uses this oil that works with the wet brakes and powers the hydraulics, once for some reason I changed this oil for straigth SAE 30 motor oil and the brakes chattered and took longer to stop, back to hydraulic oil and problem solved, ergo the thin hydro-fluid makes the disck grab better.

I'm sure hydro-fluid will work fine in the C4, the only thing that worries me is about the extreme pressure additive that ATF is supposed to have to lubricate the planetary gears, the lack of it in hydro-fluid could make them waer faster? but again, my tractor's gearbox survives fine, also I use ISO 64 hydraulic oil in the system of my Caterpillar 416 backhoe, and this baby has some sophisticated hydraulic pump that works very well with it, this afternoon I just bougth a 5 galon pail for it for only $46.

ISO 64 hydro-fluid I believe is something like SAE 30, so I should use ISO 46, I think this is close to SAE 10, I have a comparision chart somewhere.

let's see how it goes, thanks a lot.
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:46 PM
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I just remembered my trasmission's teacher told me that type A trans fluid was plain whale oil, nothing exotic about it, they stoped using it not because it was not good, in fact it was the best stuff, but because the tree huggers made them stop.
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