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Old 01-09-2017, 03:28 PM
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Noisy Roller lifters...problem solved

I have been chasing an irritating lifter ticks for years. I did all the common stuff talked about on these forums and others... Proper push rod length, proper guide plate setup, heavier oil. I tried multiple big name lifters and rocker arms, still noisy.

Since heavier oil did delay the issue, It became clearer to me the issue was not with my setup but with both of the big name performance lifters I was using.

The solution... Johnson SBR2112 lifters. I could tell right out of the box and into the motor they were better. The roller wheel is not forked, leaving the lifter full bodied. They also fit much tighter in the lifter bore. This reduced rock in the lifter bore which was VERY pronounced with the big name roller when lifted by the cam.

They also adjusted easier and just felt more consistent when adjusting.

Job done, a quite precision sounding performance motor at last. Then on the distributor-less ignition converison. (DIS)

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Old 01-09-2017, 09:13 PM
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Post a video
what are the measured specs between brand names

I'm not
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:51 PM
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Noisy Roller lifters...problem solved

Here is what I received from a search. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...BR2112+lifters
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:03 AM
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When I changed cams I had about 3000 miles on my Edelbrock rollers. Made all kinds of noise and clattering. Ordered a set of Howards and problem solved.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:28 AM
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Greg;

Did you notice any damage/wear on the "Edelbrock" lifters when you removed them after 3k miles?
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg T View Post
When I changed cams I had about 3000 miles on my Edelbrock rollers. Made all kinds of noise and clattering. Ordered a set of Howards and problem solved.
They are Morels.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:41 AM
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GM spec on lifter to bore clearance for a hyd roller lifter to function properly is .0015 to .0018". One needs to check lifter bores and lifters to make sure you fall in the General clearance window. This is how the lifter gets oil so it can function. Just as important as rod and main bearing clearances.

If a lifter will rock in the bore it should not be assembled. If you have to hammer a lifter in a bore it should not be assembled. I have now "Fixed" 2 customers this year that had aftermarket block builds and they thought that "tapping" the lifters into the bores was okay. Both of these builds were $20K plus and both are now being rebuilt.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:47 AM
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I had an old set of crane retrofit hydraulic roller lifters and they were the exact same type with the forked type older style ends and that was what the GM oem roller lifters looked like as well for I don't know for how many years and then the LS series small blocks came out and they had some issues with the lifters breaking off at the area where the wheels are pinned into and they then started to use the full body hydraulic roller lifter and they had no more problems with breaking lifters.

I never had any clanky tap tap noise with my old crane lifters but I got a set of howards (morel) street retrofit roller lifters and they are the updated style and are way nicer from own perception as well and have great feedback on those exact lifters. Just like mentioned above Morel makes them and I have a 86 and up sbc with a oem roller setup and my Dad works on stuff on the side and he had a old small block in there with the older style and I compared mine and I wished I had measured to see the difference but you could just tell after setup and everything else they were better.

My retrofit howards are going nice and good in my new Dart shp block.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StraubTech View Post
GM spec on lifter to bore clearance for a hyd roller lifter to function properly is .0015 to .0018". One needs to check lifter bores and lifters to make sure you fall in the General clearance window. This is how the lifter gets oil so it can function. Just as important as rod and main bearing clearances.

If a lifter will rock in the bore it should not be assembled. If you have to hammer a lifter in a bore it should not be assembled. I have now "Fixed" 2 customers this year that had aftermarket block builds and they thought that "tapping" the lifters into the bores was okay. Both of these builds were $20K plus and both are now being rebuilt.
SB Chevrolet edge orifice solid lifters are .841" OD whereas standard SB Chevy solid and hydraulic lifters are .842" OD. The edge orifice lifters were introduced in 1964 for the Chevrolet 30-30 fuel injection camshaft. The extra oil clearance in the lifter bores was to allow pressurized but restricted oil to the pushrod feed hole that was located on the barrel of the lifter rather than in the oil band.

The edge orifice solid lifters were designed to restrict excessive oil flow to the rocker arms when using a solid flat tappet camshaft. I used them in a Pontiac 400 engine with a vintage Crane ZIP 510 camshaft with good results. You must run roller rocker arms with those lifters due to the diminished oil supply to the rocker arms. Rocker arms with ball pivots would burn up and seize if you were using edge orifice lifters because very little oil gets up there. Edge orifice lifters also increase pressurized oil flow to the main bearings where it is needed most.

More recently, I have used Smith Brothers restricted pushrods with a solid flat tappet cam. . They can be ordered with a .050" oil feed hole in the lifter end of the pushrod and can be used with a solid flat tappet or a solid roller camshaft. The Smith Brothers restricted pushrods accomplish the same benefits as do the the edge orifice solid lifters and can be retrofitted if you already have a solid lifter camshaft with standard solid lifters.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:03 PM
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Use Isky Red Zone EZ Roll solid bushing roller lifters for competition engines. The usual needle bearing roller lifters will wear out, especially with an aggressive camshaft with valve spring pressure more than 180 lb seated / 350 lb. open. They are expensive but so is a new engine.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
SB Chevrolet edge orifice solid lifters are .841" OD whereas standard SB Chevy solid and hydraulic lifters are .842" OD. The edge orifice lifters were introduced in 1964 for the Chevrolet 30-30 fuel injection camshaft. The extra oil clearance in the lifter bores was to allow pressurized but restricted oil to the pushrod feed hole that was located on the barrel of the lifter rather than in the oil band.

The edge orifice solid lifters were designed to restrict excessive oil flow to the rocker arms when using a solid flat tappet camshaft. I used them in a Pontiac 400 engine with a vintage Crane ZIP 510 camshaft with good results. You must run roller rocker arms with those lifters due to the diminished oil supply to the rocker arms. Rocker arms with ball pivots would burn up and seize if you were using edge orifice lifters because very little oil gets up there. Edge orifice lifters also increase pressurized oil flow to the main bearings where it is needed most.

More recently, I have used Smith Brothers restricted pushrods with a solid flat tappet cam. . They can be ordered with a .050" oil feed hole in the lifter end of the pushrod and can be used with a solid flat tappet or a solid roller camshaft. The Smith Brothers restricted pushrods accomplish the same benefits as do the the edge orifice solid lifters and can be retrofitted if you already have a solid lifter camshaft with standard solid lifters.

I need to add this to the use of edge orifice solid flat tappet lifters. As I wrote before, they were introduced by GM in 1965 to use with the SB Chevrolet 30-30 fuel injection camshaft and stock SB Chevrolet single with damper valve springs, that are rated at 105 lb seat / 290 lb open pressure. The purpose of the lifters with a edge orifice oil feed hole was to restrict oil flow to the rocker arms, especially at high RPM.

If aftermarket valve springs are used with edge orifice lifters that have :higher spring loads than the stock valve springs, full roller rocker arms should be used. That is because the oil flow to the rocker arms will be restricted by 30% with edge orifice lifters. Stock pivot ball type rocker arms would likely gall and seize due to lack of oil.

The poor man's solution is to use grooved rocker balls. That may or may not work, depending on the valve spring pressure. I successfully used grooved rocker arm balls and stock rocker arms on my 1959 Chevrolet Impala with a 1965 327 / 365 HP GM crate engine. I equipped the over the counter SB Chevrolet 327 crate engine with a GM 30-30 FI cam and used Crane green stripe valve springs that were rated at 125 lb seat / 310 lb open pressure. I felt like I would have had problems with rocker arm oiling with standard GM rocker balls, higher valve spring pressure and the edge orifice lifters.

Last edited by MouseFink; 01-12-2017 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
Use Isky Red Zone EZ Roll solid bushing roller lifters for competition engines. The usual needle bearing roller lifters will wear out, especially with an aggressive camshaft with valve spring pressure more than 180 lb seated / 350 lb. open. They are expensive but so is a new engine.
Morel developed the bushing lifter in 1988 and patented it in 1991. Buick paid for the R&D. The bushing will not last longer....that's marketing. What the bushing will do is if it reaches failure mode it will not destroy the engine by putting needle bearings throughout the engine.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:43 PM
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More recently, I have used Smith Brothers restricted pushrods with a solid flat tappet cam. . They can be ordered with a .050" oil feed hole in the lifter end of the pushrod and can be used with a solid flat tappet or a solid roller camshaft. The Smith Brothers restricted pushrods accomplish the same benefits as do the the edge orifice solid lifters and can be retrofitted if you already have a solid lifter camshaft with standard solid lifters.
You can thank Ed Curtis and Flowtech Induction for those. Instead of pipe cleaners he asked if I could get that done. I had a good relationship with the owner of Smith Brothers and Dennis said yes to making restrictor pushrods. He used them in HOT Street Ford Engines. They have since been used for many engine families. That was around 1996-1998.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
Greg;

Did you notice any damage/wear on the "Edelbrock" lifters when you removed them after 3k miles?
No, didn't see anything. Eventually I'll send them back to Ede and have them looked at.
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