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Old 06-13-2011, 07:34 AM
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Noisy roller rockers - done the search, no cures?

I just installed a like-new set of CompCams 1.6 roller rockers along with AFR heads on a mid 90s Ford 302 roller block with a Trickflow .499/.510 .221/.225@.050 hydraulic cam under factory lifters. With iron heads and factory rockers and lifters on this cam all was quiet. Now, the valve train is annoyingly loud at the least and not something I want to live with as some rockers are noticeably louder than others. I've set preload from 1/6 turn from zero lash to 7/8-1 turn and a few just want to keep on thumping. I've found threads all over the net about this ranging from "It's normal" to "Mine is quiet as a mouse". I plan to hack a set of old valve covers and set the valves running, but beforehand, I'd like to know who has run into this and CURED it. I saw one or 2 posts about nearly bottoming the lifters but that's a bit drastic to me and a last ditch effort.

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Old 06-13-2011, 04:13 PM
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roller lifters are more sensitive to pushrod length.

I would check the wipe pattern of the roller on the valve stem.
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:54 PM
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Noisy CC 1.6 roller rockers

Sorry I dont have the answer...yet

I have a 337 SBC with CC 1.6 magnum roller rockers that are noisy as well. I run a 0.590 lift solid roller cam with Dart iron eagle heads, all new valvetrain. The valves are new, beehive springs, the pushrods selected to give a nice central valve stem contact pattern etc. I wish I knew the answer, I think its the needles in the rockers making the noise (sewing machine sound) and would change to another brand if it would help.

Im all ears!
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:32 PM
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1 correction to above: they are Crane Cams Gold and NOT Comp. My mistake, for what that's worth. The memory sucks, or something... I forgot... I didn't have time today to thrash on it.

The pattern is dead on and well centered. I'm curious about side to side motion? There's no play so they only real play to be found is side slip in the main rollers. Is this an issue? I found one single mention of shims I feel were related to this but there were no more details other than a casual mention.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:04 PM
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If I understand correctly, after 0 lash, you are turning 7/8 to 1 turn?? . If so you could be bottoming the lifter. 1/2 to 3/4 is enough. Also your method of adding 1/8 turn to obtain 0 lash could be adding to the problem.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:32 PM
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Take them to zero lash and then depress the plunger .035"-.040". That's it.
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:08 PM
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like 454c10 said check the valve stem contact, roller rockers require longer push rods. Moroso I think make adjustable push rods,, put them on 1 cyclinder to check the contact area. ( theses are tobe used for measuring only ) and when replacing push rods use a good quality hardened push rod.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 406 bug
If I understand correctly, after 0 lash, you are turning 7/8 to 1 turn?? . If so you could be bottoming the lifter. 1/2 to 3/4 is enough. Also your method of adding 1/8 turn to obtain 0 lash could be adding to the problem.
You're reading it wrong. From zero, I've tried from 1/6 to 7/8 with no real change.

Adjustable pushrods won't tell me anymore than what I can already see - the pattern is well centered as verified visually as well as tearing it down looking for the noise.

These are hardened pushrods and I don't remember the brand, but have a few thousand miles with only a bit of a shine from the guides.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMatch
I just installed a like-new set of CompCams 1.6 roller rockers along with AFR heads on a mid 90s Ford 302 roller block with a Trickflow .499/.510 .221/.225@.050 hydraulic cam under factory lifters. With iron heads and factory rockers and lifters on this cam all was quiet. Now, the valve train is annoyingly loud at the least and not something I want to live with as some rockers are noticeably louder than others. I've set preload from 1/6 turn from zero lash to 7/8-1 turn and a few just want to keep on thumping. I've found threads all over the net about this ranging from "It's normal" to "Mine is quiet as a mouse". I plan to hack a set of old valve covers and set the valves running, but beforehand, I'd like to know who has run into this and CURED it. I saw one or 2 posts about nearly bottoming the lifters but that's a bit drastic to me and a last ditch effort.
If you swap a noisy rocker for one that is the quietest on that side- and the noise follows the rocker- I think you will know what your problem is...
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
If you swap a noisy rocker for one that is the quietest on that side- and the noise follows the rocker- I think you will know what your problem is...
I did some swapping today. Overall, I improved the noise by about 20% by fine tuning the preloads but the noise of a couple that stand out stays with the valve and not the rocker. A stethoscope with just a rubber hose let's me pinpoint the noise at the valve or rocker/valve contact area and NOT the pushrod or pivot area. Could I be hearing the valves closing on the AFRs that wasn't as apparent on the GT40s? I wouldn't think the Trickflow cam would be that agressive on the opening or closing ramp, but I gotta ask. Guides are tight, springs are doubles plus a dampner and all in good shape (just removed for cleanup and checked).
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:47 PM
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That isn't really what I'd have expected to see, but would seem to indicate that there are differences somewhere- either in the seats, guide to stem clearance, or a difference in the exact locations of the stud to guide distances, a different installed spring height or spring pressure, or a stud that's not straight or not threaded straight- that sort of thing.

If the cam profile were the cause, I'd expect the noise to be on most if not all the valves equally, so I guess in a way you've got more questions now than before!
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Old 06-14-2011, 10:24 PM
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Checked for coil bind???
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 406 bug
Checked for coil bind???
No, but that would be a stretch with my setup. I'm "only" running .496/.510 lift and the noisier valves are the intakes at the lower lift. Doing a visual, I couldn't see a bind, and I didn't dig deeper into that aspect due to the nature of these heads should allow lots more lift than I'm throwing at it. Not a great answer, but...

Doing more reading I'm seeing more and more of the same issues I'm having. Makes no sense to me. Roller rockers of all brands seem to be hit and miss with several cases solved by using stock rockers. I've disassembled a couple of noisier rockers and found no problems at all, setup the trunions with minimal side play, can't feel any problem in the roller tip, and only made a slight improvement in the noise and THAT'S likely a mental change due to expectations. I'm kicking around the thought of using stockers here as well. The rollers don't show much on the dynos and I don't care to explain why after doing all this work on restoring the car I can't make a "simple" noise go away.

Final thought: With the noise being more apparent at the roller tip, do ANY of you have any input on how to check them? I can't feel any issues at all, but something's just not right in this area, at least that's where the most noise is. Tip contact pattern is good, guides are tight, springs pass the visual - it may be the trunk latch I'm hearing at this point , but the problem seems to be on the valve side of the rockers and I went through the valves during a complete teardown/cleanup/lapping. All are noisier than I'd like but a couple stand out.
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
That isn't really what I'd have expected to see, but would seem to indicate that there are differences somewhere- either in the seats, guide to stem clearance, or a difference in the exact locations of the stud to guide distances, a different installed spring height or spring pressure, or a stud that's not straight or not threaded straight- that sort of thing.
Brainfart alert... Geeze... I remember swapping the #4 intake rocker with another as #4 was noisy. Sitting here thinking about this ^*&#$ I MAY have swapped it with #1 intake. Uhmmm, it's another one making noise after lots more disecting. I may have swapped with another, but now I'm second guessing so that test is useless. I'm overloaded with work in my shop and the time spent on this thing is hit and miss with the need to have it right by the weekend. Not the best conditions.
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:03 AM
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I have the Comp Pro Magnums, and as I discussed in this thread, they are noisy. Using a stethoscope, I too narrowed the source down to the roller tips. Upon removing and examining several of the rockers, I found that there was a little play both side-to-side and axially in the roller tips. I didn't go to the trouble of setting up a jig and measuring the play, but I would SWAG that it was .001-.002 side-to-side and maybe .0005-.001 axially. Given the dynamcis of the pushrod/rocker/valve tip interfaces, I could see how some side-to-side movement could be introduced at the roller tip, which could easily result in a ticking noise as the roller tip moves back and forth within the rocker end.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!
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