Noobe Front axle question re: Track T roadsters - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2006, 05:48 PM
PairsNPaint's Avatar
Lord of All Things Poker
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Noobe Front axle question re: Track T roadsters

I'm planning to build a '27 Track T roadster. I've noticed that all T bucket chassis I've seen utilize a front suspension with the tie rod running out in front of the axle as opposed to Model A - and later chassis with the tie rod behind the axle (which seems much cleaner looking and safer to me). Can anyone explain why this is so and is there any reason the tie rod can't be located behind the axle on a T chassis??

Thanks!

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2006, 06:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Lone Star State (Houston area)
Posts: 1,189
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The tie rod is in front on many Ts because the springs are behind and often below the axle thus making it a problem to modify the steering arms on the spindles to drop them to allow for clearance of the tie rod.

Model As, and 32-34 Fords have the spring above the axle and clearance problems only occur with dropped axles and split wishbones, hairpin radius rods are usually not a problem.

It takes some planning and mockup to "perfect" a rear tie rod install on a suicide style spring behind axle front end. The Track Car has a stock 47-48 axle with 48 dogleg split wishbones and spring behind the axle. It uses unmodified spindles and a "bent" ends tie rod. The bends neccessitated the installation of a support bridge between the ends along the length of the tie rod as iit would flex (not a good idea) without it. Problem solved and runs, drives, steers very well. The drag link on the Track Car is cross steering from a front mounted Mustang/Falcon box and attaches to a fabricated boss on the tie rod rather than the right spindle arm.

The Track Car is a very well designed 23 with a turtle deck and full nose/hood which tilts forward for engine access, built in 1969-70 by Burl Bell in Houston TX.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2006, 06:33 PM
PairsNPaint's Avatar
Lord of All Things Poker
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you, that helps a lot. Which Track Car are you refering to? Do you have a link to any pictures, esp. of the front end?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 09:55 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: General Motors transmissions Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: near Yellowstone park
Posts: 4,267
Wiki Edits: 27

Thanks: 11
Thanked 248 Times in 233 Posts
tie rod

tie rod in front usually makes the tires scrub when you turn check out akerman design and suspension threads I have driven go carts with tie rod in ftont and they would slow down in corners because of tire scrub. handling can be scarry on bumpy roads turning if not set up right.
retired Ford engineer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2007, 08:23 PM
Youngster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 361
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Front axle question re:Track T roadster

Running the tie rod behind the axle is not hard to do. Basically you have 2 choices.
1.) reshaping the steering arms on the spindles
2.) purchasing a pair of dropped spindle arms from Chassis Eng.

Either one of these options work well. There is a bucket still in service that I heated and reshaped the arms on 35 years ago and no problems. Just make sure you let the heated portion cool by it's self. DO NOT quench them!

Most often when tie rods are in front of the axle, it's because Chevy spindles were used. I have never used these spindles,so I'm not sure why no one has reshaped them. I do suspect it could be because there could be a clearance problem. Don't quot me on that though.

Youngster
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2007, 09:14 AM
Dugg's Avatar
My compass doesn't point North
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: in the hills of Colorado
Posts: 148
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I concure with Yougster on using the Chassis Engieering steering arms. They're forged, not cast. CE offers their arms in two "drops". One mounts the tie rod about 1.5" below the centerline of the backing plate mounting holes in the spindle. The other about 2.5 ".

Aside from being forged, the other point I like about CE is that the arms mount with through bolts. That is, you put the bolts through the backing plate (or caliper mount) through the spindle and through the steering arm and put locking nuts on the bolts. I prefer the nuts be exposed as opposed to putting the nuts inside the drum because you can see the nuts and the prescribed three threads of the bolts during your pre-flight.

Othe brands of steering arms are cast (some may be forged, the info is a tad sketchy here) and they are mounted with bolts from the backing plate side into blind holes in the arms. Should a bolt or bolts loosen, you may not catch'em in time. These may look a bit cleaner, but I prefer the logic of the bolt and nut design.

Yes, I do tend to ramble on.... sorry.

With the tie rod out in front, you no longer have the correct steering Ackerman (sp) geometry. As I recall, in a top view of the car, this amounts to lines drawn through the king pins center lines through the steering arm/tie rod mounting holes to converge at the companion flange of the rear end.

With the tie rod out front, it is conceivable to heat and bend the steering arms to produce the correct Ackerman but in doing so, you probably won't be able to mount brakes or maybe even wheels on the car.

Last edited by Dugg; 10-27-2007 at 09:19 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2007, 09:38 AM
Youngster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 361
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Track T roadster

Well written Dugg, Guess I should have included an explanation. I'm sure PairsNPaint can find something on here about the Ackerman principal if he wants to.

Youngster
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quarter Elliptic front springs on straight axle woodcanoe Suspension - Brakes - Steering 4 10-20-2006 01:00 AM
disc brake solid front axle for my ratrod fourbi4rox Suspension - Brakes - Steering 1 09-25-2006 06:26 AM
32 ford frame width at front axle centerline Dirty Steve Hotrodding Basics 4 05-15-2006 07:40 AM
front clip question. gemini86 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 5 01-21-2003 06:27 PM
front hub question??? HemmiGremmie Transmission - Rearend 2 08-09-2002 06:17 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.