Not happy with performance from new 355. - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:33 PM
Slammedsi's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vernon, TX
Posts: 287
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 129
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Not happy with performance from new 355.

I wanted to ask if there is anything I might be missing on this motor that would cause for lame 1/4 mile times. Here is the specs.

1086 350 with .030 overbore
speed pro flattop pistons 5cc
stock crank and rods
Edelbrock performer rpm heads 185cc runner/64cc chambers
1.6 Comp full roller rockers
cam is 218/218 480/480 lift with 1.6 rocker 106 lsa hydro flattappet.
compression is 10:0.1
Edelbrock 600cfm carb
Small primary headers with 3 inch collectors.
3 inch exhaust to 3 inch flow master 40s
Lake wood traction bars
295/65/15 Mickey Thompson ET Streets Drag radials.
Trans is a 700r4 with a 2800rpm stall
3.73 gears with a spool.

Truck is a 1977 C10 Reg cab Short bed 2wd, That has a race weight of 4000lbs. Timing is set to 23* Base and 35 all in by 3000 and running ported vacuum instead of timed. I did some shake down runs on a personal road with a stop watch and while it seemed to run good the best i could manage was a 14ish 1/4 mile. No mph as the speedo is broken. I was really hopping to make it into the low low 13's. There is a Nitrous Express Main Line 1000 plate kit on this truck but i want to get the motor runs squared away before i try the nitrous. Can anyone recommend a step in the direction i want to go. I'm not sure on what else to do other then going to a full roller cam and lifters, somewhere in the 230 duration range with 550 inches of lift. I had Tech do a dyno sim on this combination and it made in the mid 400 range.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2013, 08:52 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,147
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 374 Times in 368 Posts
I guess that Tech is a little off.
take it to a real drag strip and run it MPH from the time slip tells all.
The carb is too small. Everythiing else is too small to get a 4000 pound truck going too.

The heads work good when ported.
You are a very long way away from 450 N/A HP right now and for a nitrous effort I would do it a lot different.
Those "2600" "2800" stall TH700r4 converters are junk. They are just tweeked stock GM converters and very inefficient.
Truck needs 4.88 N/A gears with those 30" tires

Why don't you build a superchared motor for it so you can go fast all the time?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2013, 09:55 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammedsi View Post
I'm not sure on what else to do other then going to a full roller cam and lifters, somewhere in the 230 duration range with 550 inches of lift. I had Tech do a dyno sim on this combination and it made in the mid 400 range.
Was the sim on the combo you are NOW running, or on the roller cam/230 duration, etc.?

In any event, a private road timed w/a stopwatch isn't going to be accurate. Take the truck to the track where there are timing lights and an exact quarter mile.

That said, the times you are estimating sounds about right for the engine combo and truck specs. One thing though- having 0.480" lift and only 218 degrees duration is a quick ramp cam. Adding 1.6 rockers to the mix could be taxing the valve springs beyond their limits.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2013, 11:58 PM
jokerZ71's Avatar
Wrench Turner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Stanton,Tn.
Age: 52
Posts: 2,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 134
Thanked 343 Times in 306 Posts
The 700R4 & 3:73 make for a great street setup,but,for not much for the 1/4 mile strip.Lower gearing would definitely help a lot.700R4 gear ratios suck.Especially the big drop from 1st to 2nd.Takes alotta motor & gear to recover & not lose time on 1 to 2 shift.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 06:33 AM
Slammedsi's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vernon, TX
Posts: 287
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 129
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
I guess that Tech is a little off.
take it to a real drag strip and run it MPH from the time slip tells all.
The carb is too small. Everythiing else is too small to get a 4000 pound truck going too.

The heads work good when ported.
You are a very long way away from 450 N/A HP right now and for a nitrous effort I would do it a lot different.
Those "2600" "2800" stall TH700r4 converters are junk. They are just tweeked stock GM converters and very inefficient.
Truck needs 4.88 N/A gears with those 30" tires

Why don't you build a superchared motor for it so you can go fast all the time?
I was looking into stalls in the 3000-3500 range. Something like a tci, houge or other quaility brands. Abd changing to a 4 something gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
Was the sim on the combo you are NOW running, or on the roller cam/230 duration, etc.?

In any event, a private road timed w/a stopwatch isn't going to be accurate. Take the truck to the track where there are timing lights and an exact quarter mile.

That said, the times you are estimating sounds about right for the engine combo and truck specs. One thing though- having 0.480" lift and only 218 degrees duration is a quick ramp cam. Adding 1.6 rockers to the mix could be taxing the valve springs beyond their limits.
The dyno sim tech did was on the flat tappet cam. Also the cam is a a 450 lift with factory 1.5 rockers. I'm running a set of 1.6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
The 700R4 & 3:73 make for a great street setup,but,for not much for the 1/4 mile strip.Lower gearing would definitely help a lot.700R4 gear ratios suck.Especially the big drop from 1st to 2nd.Takes alotta motor & gear to recover & not lose time on 1 to 2 shift.
I was looking at either having this 700r4 built or going to a th350. The 700 can be built for less then a grand or I can change to the 350 for the same amount of money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 09:27 AM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,002
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 318
Thanked 776 Times in 743 Posts
If you run a high 13/low 14 in a 4000 pound truck with a 600 cfm carb,thats haulin!
I would be very happy with that.There are a lot of street "cars that run high 13s with bigger items.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to vinniekq2 For This Useful Post:
Slammedsi (07-14-2013)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 09:46 AM
jokerZ71's Avatar
Wrench Turner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Stanton,Tn.
Age: 52
Posts: 2,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 134
Thanked 343 Times in 306 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammedsi View Post
I was looking into stalls in the 3000-3500 range. Something like a tci, houge or other quaility brands. Abd changing to a 4 something gear.



The dyno sim tech did was on the flat tappet cam. Also the cam is a a 450 lift with factory 1.5 rockers. I'm running a set of 1.6.



I was looking at either having this 700r4 built or going to a th350. The 700 can be built for less then a grand or I can change to the 350 for the same amount of money.
Yep the 700 & 4L60 can be built to hold up well.They even have different gearsets that have a lot better ratios,but,they cost around $1,ooo.For a lot of street driving they are good.You can just about move up to a 4L80 for what it cost to build the 700 & still have OD,better gear ratio, & a lot better durability.I'm trying to remember,but'it seems like there is about a 10K RPM drop from 1st to 2nd on the 700.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:31 AM
jokerZ71's Avatar
Wrench Turner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Stanton,Tn.
Age: 52
Posts: 2,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 134
Thanked 343 Times in 306 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
Yep the 700 & 4L60 can be built to hold up well.They even have different gearsets that have a lot better ratios,but,they cost around $1,ooo.For a lot of street driving they are good.You can just about move up to a 4L80 for what it cost to build the 700 & still have OD,better gear ratio, & a lot better durability.I'm trying to remember,but'it seems like there is about a 10K RPM drop from 1st to 2nd on the 700.
I tried to edit,but, I had waited too long.I meant 1,000 rpm drop on 1 to 2 shift.This has been my experience with the 4L60E which to my knowledge has the same ratios as the 700.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:34 AM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,147
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 374 Times in 368 Posts
You built a 350 horsepower engine and expected 550 horsepower.
Why don't you build a 355 engine that has the real required power in the first place
and works with the gears/tires and converter you got.? And will move a #4000 truck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to F-BIRD'88 For This Useful Post:
Slammedsi (07-14-2013)
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:42 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 29
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
running high 13s low 14s in a 4000lb truck with a 355sb is respectable !
as Vinniekg2 said!

you want accurate info , you need accurate numbers. the best way is TAKE IT TO THE TRACK and make a series of runs.
what are the 60ft times , 1/8 mile , 14 mile ...that way you can see where you can improve. and , you know the actuall ET and MPH.

not to offend anyone but i see a lot of individuals with 4 -600 hp OR SO THEY THINK. in reality , usually around 3-350 .
ALSO , keep in mind that you may have 450 hp eng , thats not at the rear wheels. as a average rule of thumb , anywhere from 18 -25 % loss at the rear wheels...If you just have "MILD" components and not all out balls to the walls race parts.

from the flywheel ,converter, thru the trans , the drive shaft ,to the rear and out to the tires. you lose a fair amount.

Drag radials - how much tire spin ? ( 60 ft times will help with that )
Im guessing your 60ft might be somewhere from 1.8 to a 2.2 sec more if spinning.

You got a great street set up...but 4000lbs witha 3.73 gear and a mild sb is running pretty damn good..
Go online and check out .... THE FARM TRUCK - street racer.
ITS ALSO ON A NEW TV SERIES CALLED STREET OUTLAWS.

I SAY ADD THE 150 Shot to it ...GOOD FUEL , BACK THE TIMING DOWN 4 deg and make sure you have good fuel pressure...
OH , AND THROW SOME SLICKS ON IT ..You might pull out a low 13 or even into the 12s

MAKE SURE THERE IS NO OBSTRUCTION WITH THE GAS PEDAL AND WIDE OPEN THROTTLE.
a floor mat could keep a good .05 sec or more off your time.


Ive done a little racing , heres a couple of my cars . the red 72 CAMARO was 510ci 8-71 blown street car set at 3lbs off boost for the street and was 846.2 hp ...or 16lbs boost was 1289 for the track.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012 CAMARO  69 95 PROJECT 010.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	176.4 KB
ID:	75644   Click image for larger version

Name:	no wing 5.JPG
Views:	41
Size:	121.8 KB
ID:	75645   Click image for larger version

Name:	559.JPG
Views:	37
Size:	121.9 KB
ID:	75646  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:48 AM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,002
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 318
Thanked 776 Times in 743 Posts
S W,nice collection.love the 210,had 4 shakies before I moved up to Camaros.
post more pictures
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:23 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 29
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks Vinnie ... heres a couple more but i dont want to hi-jack his thread..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	411 RACE DAY.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	262.8 KB
ID:	75650   Click image for larger version

Name:	jc01.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	55.4 KB
ID:	75651   Click image for larger version

Name:	78MB1.JPG
Views:	42
Size:	124.2 KB
ID:	75652   Click image for larger version

Name:	0189501620413 -94 PRO Camaro.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	39.5 KB
ID:	75653  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 01:29 PM
ProStreetRob's Avatar
Blown 502
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Selden NY
Age: 54
Posts: 168
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 28 Times in 24 Posts
I'm on my 8th Street / Race Truck and although I don't claim to know everything I do have a lot of experience making trucks go fast. If there's one thing I learned through the decades that is to stick to a well know combo so you know exactly what the results will be before you do anything.
I must be doing something right I've been running in the 9's and 10's with them for over a decade.

I cheat a lot and use Superchargers because they work so good but you need some pretty beefy motors, transmissions, & rears, to run that kind of power in a 5000 lb truck. When I dont use a Supercharger I use big cu in motors with big power to put it down but again I stick to well known combo's with plenty of history. My Ranger has a n/a 418 cu in 351W in it with a 5500 Stall, 488 Gears, it's a Solid Roller Motor w/Girdle, and it runs mid 10's going over the finish line at 7900 - 8000 RPM. It has a 3 Speed C4 with a trans brake and that little Sob runs.

In any case as already said a 13 / 14 sec truck is bad *** to begin with and with a few tweaks yours will be even faster. Get some #'s on the 1320 and then take it from there. Best of Luck ....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 04:11 PM
Slammedsi's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vernon, TX
Posts: 287
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 129
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
If you run a high 13/low 14 in a 4000 pound truck with a 600 cfm carb,thats haulin!
I would be very happy with that.There are a lot of street "cars that run high 13s with bigger items.
Thanks Vinnie, I was shooting for a extremely low 13.00 or a 12.99, I went to the scales today to weigh the truck for a solid number and with me in the truck and a full 12 gallon cell it came in at 3720.

I used the Wallace Racing 1/4 mile calculator, if the truck come in at 3720 and makes say 400 crank hp 18% for drivetrain loss makes 330wheel, it should run a theoretical 13.10 at 103 mph.

It did have some wheel spin through first gear, but It was 105* out yesterday so I bet the heat had a lot to do with it.

Fbird, I built what I could afford, I had the bottom end that had less then 1000 miles on it, I was only shooting for 400 crank hp motor. I don't mind changing the stall out and having the transmission built for what I have, and then some.

The way the calculator is showing its only making about 250 wheel hp. That just seems way way low.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 04:36 PM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,002
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 318
Thanked 776 Times in 743 Posts
It takes a while to tune the car,example:
I bought my 1980 Z-28 from a long shoreman,it had a 454,forged pistons,performer intake,Q-J carb and hooker headers.the car weighed 3915 with me in it.His best time was 13.9. He paid a lot of people a lot of money to get that fast.
My first pass with the car was 13.3,,,, the people that worked on the car did not tune the engine or car for racing. I changed a lot and ran a best of 11.9 before I sold it.
Work with the bones you have,get them right,,,,then make major changes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best heads for street performance 355 adantessr Engine 15 02-17-2013 08:09 PM
SBC 355 Performance Build ChevroletSS Engine 103 12-21-2012 06:10 AM
AFR dyno comparison on their 355 vs my 355 black66 Engine 21 10-13-2009 04:57 AM
Performance Heads add in Chevy Hi Performance sdimpala64 Engine 1 04-29-2008 08:59 AM
Happy Birthday to you, happy birthday to yooooooooou.... Nightfire Hotrodders' Lounge 4 10-26-2004 12:05 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.