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Old 09-07-2006, 09:39 AM
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"nother bothersome question

Filler over epoxy or Epoxy over filler? Here is some good info

I have reread this post probably 5-6 times total in the past few months and want to summarize what I think was said. I do need confirmation of what I am saying was the consensus.
I'm also adding what I have done so far

1. Bare metal is best and finished with at least 80 grit paper.

Due to the very thick(estimated .002 - .010) Western Acrylic red oxide primer, I am having to begin with my 17" long board, finish with a Durablock or just by hand. Final is a DA with 80 or 100 to end up with a pile of dust.

2. Apply epoxy per mfr instructions -

In my case, SPI epoxy and this means 2 fairly light coats, with a specific time or flash period between. I do have some Nason left and will not intermix on panels, but will use Barry's criteria for overcoating with filler as it's more conservative.

3. Apply filler per directions of the epoxy mfr -

Again, in my case Evercoat Rage - within 24 hours to a week. If beyond a week, scuff the epoxy with 3M red to 180 paper. I am going to have to probably skim coat the entire Brookville body due to inconsistancies that cannot be easily removed - mostly low spots. If I sand thru the epoxy, will recoat as necessary.

4. Apply 2 or more coats of 2K (also SPI regular), sand with 400 then going to 800.

5. Then, if I make it in time before the weather here in the frozen tundra of the Great Northeast changes, then I will BC/CC, and since I intend on two toning, will bring up another set of questions which will be another post later on.

Dave

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Old 09-07-2006, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
Filler over epoxy or Epoxy over filler? Here is some good info

I have reread this post probably 5-6 times total in the past few months and want to summarize what I think was said. I do need confirmation of what I am saying was the consensus.
I'm also adding what I have done so far

1. Bare metal is best and finished with at least 80 grit paper.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*YES*

Due to the very thick(estimated .002 - .010) Western Acrylic red oxide primer, I am having to begin with my 17" long board, finish with a Durablock or just by hand. Final is a DA with 80 or 100 to end up with a pile of dust.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Did I hear you say you ere taking all the red oxide off*
It will not take long with 180 on a DA!

2. Apply epoxy per mfr instructions -

In my case, SPI epoxy and this means 2 fairly light coats, with a specific time or flash period between.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Prefer two wet coats for proper surface tension*

I do have some Nason left and will not intermix on panels, but will use Barry's criteria for overcoating with filler as it's more conservative.
------------------------------------------------------------------
* You can use one over the other with no problem just let the first one dry overnight is best*

3. Apply filler per directions of the epoxy mfr
Again, in my case Evercoat Rage - within 24 hours to a week. If beyond a week, scuff the epoxy with 3M red to 180 paper. I am going to have to probably skim coat the entire Brookville body due to inconsistancies that cannot be easily removed - mostly low spots. If I sand thru the epoxy, will recoat as necessary.

4. Apply 2 or more coats of 2K (also SPI regular), sand with 400 then going to 800.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*How about 2-3 coats and block with 180 to make it easier to get straight and then apply two coats and finish sand with 400*

5. Then, if I make it in time before the weather here in the frozen tundra of the Great Northeast changes, then I will BC/CC, and since I intend on two toning, will bring up another set of questions which will be another post later on.

Dave
Hope this helps
Barry
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Hope this helps

Due to the very thick(estimated .002 - .010) Western Acrylic red oxide primer, I am having to begin with my 17" long board, finish with a Durablock or just by hand. Final is a DA with 80 or 100 to end up with a pile of dust.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
* Did I hear you say you ere taking all the red oxide off*
It will not take long with 180 on a DA!

Barry
Barry, After my conversation with you a couple of weeks ago. I found out that this stuff is extremely soft - to the point that it clogs the paper, DA or hand, within a minute or two. My DA PSA paper is Dutch (100) or 3M (80), depending on what I grab, with the Dutch being the best. The longboard paper is Sancap Amazon and does stay fairly clear with little wear. With the primer softness, I am very reluctant to leave much on the exterior surface as I have a gut feel that the SPI chemicals in the epoxy will cause me even more headaches than I already have with this Brookville body - better safe than sorry. I have too much time, effort AND money tied up to take any chances with a paint job that raises or peels off.

Not a problem with the rest of the suggestions. (I did mean two wet coats, but reasonable as far as amount)

Thanks
Dave
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:17 PM
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Maybe the temperature you painted at, or how long did you leave the heat on in your shop after you painted might have something to do with it.

Rob

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Old 09-07-2006, 03:35 PM
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[QUOTE=robs ss]Maybe the temperature you painted at, or how long did you leave the heat on in your shop after you painted might have something to do with it.

Rob

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------------------------------------------------------------

Rob,
I do believe the new body came from the factory in oxide primer.
Why any company would do that is beyond me.
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:41 PM
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I'm sure they send them out with the red oxide to help cover up surface impections, it may even be a self etch version. cheap....
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:45 PM
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I completely missed that, sorry.

Rob

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Old 09-07-2006, 04:43 PM
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You are right

Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
I'm sure they send them out with the red oxide to help cover up surface impections, it may even be a self etch version. cheap....
It sure does cover surface imperfections - after 'digging' through the primer on both doors, the cowl cover and dash, I sure am glad that I bought a gallon bucket of Rage. Between low spots, grinder gouges (not mine) dings(also not mine), poor workmanship and high spots I'm going to need it.

I can make enough mistakes , but to fix others is beyond fun - and this is my hobby !!!

Dave
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Old 09-09-2006, 12:35 PM
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Why I am stripping the Brookville primer

I've attached a photo of my dash with a pile of sanding dust indicating the amount of primer that Brookville puts on a component, in this case my dash. There are a total of 8 larger gauge and A/C outlet holes that actually reduce the surface area by quite a bit. And this is only the front side, the reverse will not be sanded to bare metal The holes range in size from 2 1/16 to 3 1/8. This is representative of all pieces that I've removed the primer. Plus, I had already done a little bit of sanding earlier

Also attached is a picture of one of my doors - low spots
N a-w-w-w-w !! TG for Rage, lotsa sandpaper and elbowgrease!!!

Dave
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Old 09-09-2006, 03:27 PM
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Thats SAD.
It seems to me, it would have been cheaper to strip the thing or had it media blasted if you have some place compentent and started from there. Your sanding your arse off... You got a air file or a jitterbug sander? I find these work quicker and better than a DA for the rough work. Unless you can use a locking DA for straight grinding and use some 36-40 on it and knock it off faster. Tried any paint stripper on the oxide yet? Might just make your year.
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Old 09-09-2006, 05:16 PM
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That door is pitifull. Did they "hammer form" it? LOL

I'm afraid to think what the rest of the body looks like.

Aaron
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Old 09-09-2006, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee4Me
Thats SAD.
It seems to me, it would have been cheaper to strip the thing or had it media blasted if you have some place compentent and started from there. Your sanding your arse off... You got a air file or a jitterbug sander? I find these work quicker and better than a DA for the rough work. Unless you can use a locking DA for straight grinding and use some 36-40 on it and knock it off faster. Tried any paint stripper on the oxide yet? Might just make your year.
I'm now, as of yesterday locking my DA for straight sanding and next week will get a new pad for my 8" grinder and start using, probably 60 grit.

As far as media blast, the only guys I know of around here use sand - and that WILL NOT happen. For whatever reason, there are no hot rod oriented business worth much in the NY Capital district. As a matter of fact, there are only 2 auto paint suppliers - DuPont - locally, and they are cousins - but good guys. I wont use paint stripper - to much chance for hide out of errant materials in cracks, so, grind away and long board it and ignore the world for the next week or so. I have to get it painted before the snow flys.

I got myself into this bind when my upolsterer had a hole in his schedule and he agreed to do the car before paint as long as it could be stripped out again for finishing - then he got sick. Melanoma. But has recovered but now I'm 2 months behind the winter weather. But, this is still a hobby and is still fun, tho aggravating at times

Dave
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Old 09-09-2006, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adtkart
That door is pitifull. Did they "hammer form" it? LOL

I'm afraid to think what the rest of the body looks like.

Aaron
Just another Brookville '30 -'31 - the other door was worse and my camera didn't pick up the "best" of it - but I keep smiling - it HAS to get better when I get to the trunk lid tomorrow. In my dreams. And I haven't even started on the main body except for a couple of small areas.

More to come.
Dave
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Old 09-10-2006, 10:55 AM
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I understand. I use the stripper on the major flat panels and use my 40# HF blaster with the coal slag for areas that I can't get to but can take light blasting.The 60 gt. is a good way but be carefull with your technique and watch for building heat on the large areas. It's made good time for me on the duelly so far but that all came to an end yesterday when I pulled the cowl grill and found that most of the cowl/firewall junction was rotted out.
Total bummer!!
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Old 09-10-2006, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee4Me
I understand. I use the stripper on the major flat panels and use my 40# HF blaster with the coal slag for areas that I can't get to but can take light blasting.The 60 gt. is a good way but be carefull with your technique and watch for building heat on the large areas. It's made good time for me on the duelly so far but that all came to an end yesterday when I pulled the cowl grill and found that most of the cowl/firewall junction was rotted out.
Total bummer!!
Sounds like you have more "pain" coming then me and my POS Brookville - now what - if I recall, it's something like an '87 and OEM style parts are made of nonuptainium.

I took a break today and went to a show at Lake George in the Adirondacks - unfortunately many cars had already left, but there were a couple of really nice '32 Chevies, both owned by the same guy. Tomorrow, after I get a new 8" pad and some 60, I finish the front floorboards (gonna leave it fairly rough) and tackle the trunk lid - much easier when my wife is at work - I retired last year and "work" gets scheduled mostly for my convenience.
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