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Old 07-03-2011, 11:16 AM
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Nova's original 305 out, 350 vortech in. Opinions?

Hello crew,
the weekend has finally come to swap motors. the original v8 was fine, but i have 350 out of a 94 tahoe, and we cleaned that up a bit. Left the bottom end stock, then i bought on a 'deal', 58cc vortech heads thats had some work done to em, vortech rpm intake, holley 750 (i have to check again on exact intake and carb), and a xe282hr cam and lifter set. Roller tip lifters. Also have long tubes, flows, original th350 trans still working good but i bought a 10" 3000rpm convertor, and i want to put a shift kit in. original rear end, 1tire fryer, probably 2.79 grannygears. 1976 nova. Please offer your budget-minded suggestions, opinions, comments.
..Will be a street cruiser, driven often, and maybe even hit the track a few times a year. Thank you all for your time.
Please excuse errors as i am typing this from my cellphone

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Old 07-03-2011, 12:07 PM
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well the true "vortecs" were made from 96'-02' the motors called vortecs were not the ones that had the coveted 062 or 906 heads, these are the factory vortecs that have gotten so much recognition. what at the casting numbers on the "58cc vortec" heads that you have.

my first concern would be the high rear end gear ratio and the "one pull wonder" open diff, the cam you listed needs to be used with a minimum of a 3.73 rear gear, with the stock 2.72's (or what ever they may be) the car will seem very sluggsih off the line cause your gears are ment for a car that makes power from idle to 4500rpm and now you have a motor that is making power from 2500-6000 rpm so you will need a set of gear that will get you into that rpm faster. i sould also likely rebuild the transmission with new sprags, clutches etc as you will be putting far more tq and hp to it than it was ever ented to handle not to meniton how old are the componets in there right now, then you add a 3k stall to it.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:16 PM
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When oh when are people going to stop planning engines around the parts they got a "deal" on, and just start planning engines?

That engine was the L05 TBI 200 HP 350, NOT an L31 Vortec! Those heads are 76 cc combustion chamber swirl port garbage and F-Bird was right in doubting them. Whatever you paid for them was too much. Sorry.
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rockin daddy
When oh when are people going to stop planning engines around the parts they got a "deal" on, and just start planning engines?
What did you expect him to do with a budget-mided project? Buy high dollar engine parts?

Getting high demand, low supply parts or high dollar new aftermarket parts is not viable when working with a minimal budget.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:17 PM
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Although I'm sure it was a typo, swirlports on the L05 are actually 64-67cc for reference.

The "vortec" engine from that 94 tahoe is an L05 as stated above, and its one of the more lowly 350's in stock form. If your budget 58cc heads come back with a "true" vortec 305 casting number (more than likely will end in 059) you wont be in such bad shape. Compression ratio is going to be a bit high, but I think with premium it'll tolerate it as long as you use a thick (.041 compressed) gasket. IMO your cam reaches a little further than your heads will give, but with a set of 3.73 or 4.10 gears you can make it work.

If they're a set of swirlport 58cc heads, throw them away. You got hosed, unless someone traded them to you for a cheese sandwich.

I would call your setup far from ideal. You'd have been better off to start with putting money in the rear end, and exhaust and then build your 350 while driving the car around. As it's been said before, the cam should be picked last, and matched to the components. That cam and those heads don't jive. FWIW, I also doubt the trans will live long behind a fresh 350 of any ilk.
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Old 07-03-2011, 04:54 PM
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Combination won't make good power?


Less than ideal combination? I understand the tranny and rear end needs to be upgraded. This is definately a budget build, as I was acquiring parts slowly over the spring, so I didn't have my choice in a lot of these. However, my builder assured me (of course) that I was making the right purchases. Can you all help clarify some things..

I have the L05 out of a 94 tahoe as opposed to..? Y is this the "lowly" 350?

My heads are vortec 062's with a competition valve job, hardened pushrods, and true 58cc's. They are considered swirlport garbage? These heads will severly limit my potential? My builder speaks greatly of these heads?

I planned on running 89 octane... Possible?

Once installed, I plan on changing screen and fluid and adding a shiftkit to the tranny. it shifts fine now. IF I can get a good deal on a trans "beef-up", I may, but otherwise...
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:38 PM
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What 062 Vortec heads came out of the factory with 58 cc chambers. Have these heads been milled? How about giving all the info?

Adamson, while it's flattering, I have no need for an internet stalker. You seem to know as much about cylinder heads as you do manifolds. You can pick up 062 heads for $200 bucks, have them checked for cracks for $50, either cut the valve guide bosses down yourself with a $20 tool or better yet beehive springs for $150. Is $400-$420 budget enough for you? Or does your vast experience say otherwise?
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Old 07-03-2011, 08:23 PM
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my apologies

I confused the heads with the 58cc world heads he had for sale that I initially was gonna get for cheaper. They ARE 64cc vortecs with screw in studs, guide plates, comp valve job. 062cast. I already have vortech performer intake, holley 650. Recurve the stock distributor. I'M seriously running out of funds for this. Done with the performance aspect, just help me ENSURE RELIABILTY and effiency...


Thank u, ur opinions offer fresh avenues
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:01 PM
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addition

Wanted to add that I have stock pistons in that motor, they are 9 to 1. I'll have to check the box for the gasket thickness, as I am curious to my quench and exact compression ratio. How should I expect this combo to perform? I know the gears and pegleg are my weakest points

I have added pics of the motor as it was a couple days ago. I call it, David Banner. Matches the green nova lol. Hopefully we get it done. If not, it's another week's wait.

Thanks for your input, they offer fresh avenues
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rockin daddy
Adamson, while it's flattering, I have no need for an internet stalker. You seem to know as much about cylinder heads as you do manifolds. You can pick up 062 heads for $200 bucks, have them checked for cracks for $50, either cut the valve guide bosses down yourself with a $20 tool or better yet beehive springs for $150. Is $400-$420 budget enough for you? Or does your vast experience say otherwise?
Not sure how posting on the same forum as you is stalking.

"Seriously running out of funds for this" would suggest that no it is not budget enough.

My vast experience as you call it would tell me that having used heads surfaced would be wise, so there is another $60 per head or so depending on who does it. You indicating that this step could/should be skipped indicates you know as much about heads as you do intake manifolds. New valve seals would be nice too. Heck, I even have new aluminum edelbrock heads surfaced.
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:05 AM
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So i[m still wondering, what is the true limiting factor in this combo? How will it run with the grannygear in the rear? Still be able to fry the tires at a light? Any hp estimate?
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:12 AM
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The gears are going to kill you. You need something in the high 3.XX to low 4.XX for it to have any get up and go.
The best engine combo in the world is not going to over come the high ratio you currently have.
The key to any build is the parts and assemblies need to be matched. The power band for the intake and cam, torque converter stall speed, compression ratio, rear gear, carburetor size, header size and length all need to work together.

It also is not an exact science so things still need to be tuned. The key is to start off with something close. There are tons of known good Vortec headed combinations. Google it or search here.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrChevyDC3
So i[m still wondering, what is the true limiting factor in this combo? How will it run with the grannygear in the rear? Still be able to fry the tires at a light? Any hp estimate?



okay you have the wrong concept of "granny gear"

a "granny gear" is acutally refering to the first gear in many older manual transmissions, where the gear was made for towing. this gear is usually very low (numerically high) when added together with the rearend gear ratio therefor you could only take first gear up to aroun 10-15 mph. i friend of mine had one in his 1984 F-250, instead of taking off from a stop in 1st and having to shift almost imediatly he would just take off in 2nd instead.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:13 PM
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You need a much smaller cam or alot lower gear.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrChevyDC3
Hello crew,
the weekend has finally come to swap motors. the original v8 was fine, but i have 350 out of a 94 tahoe, and we cleaned that up a bit. Left the bottom end stock, then i bought on a 'deal', 58cc vortech heads thats had some work done to em, vortech rpm intake, holley 750 (i have to check again on exact intake and carb), and a xe282hr cam and lifter set. Roller tip lifters. Also have long tubes, flows, original th350 trans still working good but i bought a 10" 3000rpm convertor, and i want to put a shift kit in. original rear end, 1tire fryer, probably 2.79 grannygears. 1976 nova. Please offer your budget-minded suggestions, opinions, comments.
..Will be a street cruiser, driven often, and maybe even hit the track a few times a year. Thank you all for your time.
Please excuse errors as i am typing this from my cellphone
Forget that cam unless you can get some 4.11 rear gears and a looser torque converter in it. Or better yet an OD AT that (using a 3.73 rear ratio) will give you the best of both worlds- a steep first gear for hard launches, and a gas saving 2.6-ish:1 highway ratio.

Otherwise, use a hydraulic roller cam w/around 220-222 duration @ 0.050" and as much lift as that duration will get you. That will let you use a more highway friendly rear gear ratio and less stall in the TC.

Be sure the springs are compatible w/the cam and are installed at the correct height. For that matter, you will need to check the entire valve train. HERE is a list of valve train points to check.

Hopefully you have the 8.5" 10-bolt corporate rear end and not the lo-po 7.5" diff. The 8.5 can be upgraded easily by replacing the diff w/an Eaton unit w/30 spline axles. If you are still on a tight budget, you can replace the entire rear end w/a 8.5" corporate rear end from a later second generation F-body (~1971-'81). Just be sure the ratio is 2.73 or lower (higher numerically) so the ring gear and pinion can be changed to a performance ratio- the 8.5" uses the 3 series carrier for 2.73 to 5.13 and a 2 series for 2.56 and 2.43 gears.

More on the rear end HERE.

Last edited by cobalt327; 07-05-2011 at 10:44 PM.
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