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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosley
there should be no ring on the sun gear tube at the splines.

the plastic ring inside the planetary unit = toss it in the trash.

Ok! I had ordered a new SGS and a new silencer ring, they're here now so reassembly is on...I have already done the dual feed, disassembled cleaned & rebuilt the VB, disassembled cleaned and rebuilt the clutch packs & front pump. I bought a very good used CS mainly just for the bushings as they were in great shape...mine were fried, and I had no special tools to install new ones in mine...the long way round I know, was able to fab a tool (see pic) to help install the front pump bushing & rear tail bushing which came in the kit.
Crosley regarding the silencer ring when you said toss it in the trash, did you mean? and replace it, or toss in the trash & don't bother with a replacement as they're not needed?
And can someone please help identify these left over parts? (see pic) can't seem to find reference to them in the ATSG or the DVD

Thanks.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2011, 07:04 PM
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leftover parts

the top metal gasket is for the kick down solenoid,on the left is the selector shaft seal that installs in the case and the right is the spedometer housing inner seal(looks like a small o ring stuck to it in pic) as far as the silencer ring i dont use them either but since you bought a new one its up to you
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2011, 02:18 AM
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Thanks Anglia, I don't have the type of KD solenoid that uses that I think, I was able to place the small seal in the speedo houing...you were right about that O ring....but I have no space inside or out on the selector shaft to fit that other seal (see pic)
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Last edited by BBC; 06-24-2011 at 02:28 AM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2011, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC
Thanks Anglia, I don't have the type of KD solenoid that uses that I think, I was able to place the small seal in the speedo houing...you were right about that O ring....but I have no space inside or out on the selector shaft to fit that other seal (see pic)

that shifter shaft has an O-ring on the shaft. remove the inner nut and slide the shaft out. You will see the O-ring. Should have been a small O-ring in the kit for the shaft.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2011, 07:11 AM
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Thanks Crosley, I found that tiny O ring...any ideas on the metal clad seal?

Outside at the moment putting this together, plus back & forth to the PC reading umpteen different posts from umpteen different forums including this one about bloody wave plates...to wave or not to f***ing wave.
Seems my 400 had no wave in the intermediate, 1 wave + 5 flat in the direct, and 1 wave + 4 flat in the forward...do I put it back the same? or do as Jake has said and always have a wave in the intermediate? or not have any wave plates at all anywhere as many have said to firm up shifts, the problem here is i've over researched this, and my head is full of different opinions so now I don't know whether my a** is up or down.

If this helps anyone...this is a 71 C10 with a 454, mild cam, headers, performer intake, Holley 4 barrel & 4.11 rear end, the tranny also already had upgrades such as duel feed & a transgo kit, but NOT the 1-2 shift valve mod.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2011, 08:04 AM
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I, for one am really enjoying this thread. I will end up rebuilding the TH400 I have and want to try it myself. Definitely bookmarking this.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2011, 03:39 PM
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400

the metal clad seal is for a early case selector you dont need it.as far as the waved steals use one in the forward pack at the piston,if you want slightly firmer shifts use only flat steels for 2nd and direct (the full apply mod for direct you got to use a plug in the c/suport and leave out 1 seal ring for it to work)
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2011, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglia427
the metal clad seal is for a early case selector you dont need it.as far as the waved steals use one in the forward pack at the piston,if you want slightly firmer shifts use only flat steels for 2nd and direct (the full apply mod for direct you got to use a plug in the c/suport and leave out 1 seal ring for it to work)

Thought that might be it anglia...thanks mate.
It would have been simpler to have just rebuilt my clutch packs the way I found them, but once I started reading opinions on this issue, such as,....clutch life was reduced by the use of wave plates, or taking out wave plates left you with really sharp/harsh shifts and is only really for racing apps.
The variation on this is crazy, the ATSG shows that in both the direct & forward clutch packs you start with a wave followed by a flat then a friction & so on, but on the DVD they start with the wave then a friction, he doesn't add a flat on top of the wave like the manual, it seems there are only two things to really be concerned about when assembling these clutch packs....firstly you must end up with the correct amount of end play at the top between the pressure plate & the last friction how ever you stack them...secondly that you build them for either hard or soft shifting, it really doesn't seem to matter if you start with one wave followed by a friction, or two waves then a friction, or one wave then a flat followed by a friction, as long as they alternate the rest of the way through the pack and end with a friction it seems it's personal taste as much as anything.
Here's a quote from Jake (hope he doesn't mind) were the same debate was going on about the deletion of wave plates....

Quote:
I usually leave the wave in on a street unit also. Even a mild street/strip deal. It doesn't hurt anything.

I ALWAYS leave the wave plate in the intermediates. Even with the good sprag and drum setup.

On a stock TH400 I use two wave plates in the direct to keep the reverse engagement from being harsh.

The only time I don't like using a wave plate is on a shifting clutch where the wave is directly against the friction. The wave plates always show heat on the high spots. Whether this is something to really worry about or not, I dunno, but if I see hot spots I try to prevent them.
Man I really have over thought this...maybe I should buy a Yaris.

Last edited by BBC; 06-24-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2011, 09:46 PM
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on a th400 or a th350 as well as the ford and chrysler 3 speeds there are many different ways to build them so you are going to get many different answers from the builders on here. put a wave plate in the forward you want a little cushion on apply going into gear. leave the wave plate out on the direct if you are double feeding this will act as an accumualtor anyway due to the drum taking in more volume at once. leave the wave out of the intermediate also as matter fact you can get 4l80e steels and presure plate and be able to add one more intermediate clutch.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2011, 11:32 PM
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On the clutch stack ups, you would do well to follow advice from the guys that do this for a living and have been doing it for years, Jake, Crosley, etc.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2011, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transbuilderguy
on a th400 or a th350 as well as the ford and chrysler 3 speeds there are many different ways to build them so you are going to get many different answers from the builders on here. put a wave plate in the forward you want a little cushion on apply going into gear. leave the wave plate out on the direct if you are double feeding this will act as an accumualtor anyway due to the drum taking in more volume at once. leave the wave out of the intermediate also as matter fact you can get 4l80e steels and presure plate and be able to add one more intermediate clutch.
Hey mate, believe it or not that's what I ended up doing, & is essentially how the thing was when I tore it down, I shouldn't have been second guessing who ever had built this originally thinking I could improve on it, sometimes you need to go all the way round only to arrive back at the beginning to realize you where in the best place at the start....if that makes sense.
Your right, there are going to be plenty of folks who would not have stacked them this way, it was a pisser anyway as the kit I got came with only two waves, one for the intermediate and one for either the forward or direct, so I would needed to have reused a wave but mine have flattened out considerably and are bordering on being flat.




Quote:
On the clutch stack ups, you would do well to follow advice from the guys that do this for a living and have been doing it for years, Jake, Crosley, etc.

I know Overdriv, and it was there advice that I was listing to most, but even in their individual cases Crosley said in an earlier post that he sometimes uses two flat steels & no wave in a stack, & that Jake in his posts tells us how he "likes" to stack them, but does not say you "have" to stack them the same way....I suppose in an ideal world for the novice like me, that's sorta what I was expecting or hoping for from the experts, telling me you "must" stack your clutches in this manner or your trans will go boom, I now know it's not like that & that there is a great deal of personal preference involved...but yes, their advice is paramount.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2011, 04:07 PM
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overdrive

overdrive fyi ive been doing this now for 38 years and have run several performance trans shops
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2011, 05:13 PM
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Well it's done now & in the truck today so if I built it bad i'll soon find out on that maiden voyage...even if it turns out that I don't like how it feels, I'll pull it & change it...so no worries, I enjoyed every minuite of this build & learned a whole heap doing it, plus I'm gratefull for all the input & help I recieved from everyone on here during my rebuild, I'd have been poorer withnout it.
I will let you all know if it goes BOOM!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2011, 05:32 PM
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Nice truck.
Be sure and give the convertor a spin before bolting to the flexplate.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2011, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Nice truck.
Be sure and give the convertor a spin before bolting to the flexplate.
Thanks mate, and thanks for the tip...will do.
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