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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2008, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58Apache
A very good question! Thought about it many times! The truth is while I love SOME of the cars at the Nats, I like more of the cars of the 50's to 60's a little better .....or I did at the time I bought the truck.

The 40's cars are still not my taste, but some of the early 30's and late 20's cars have worked on me hard these last few years.

Finding one to build has been a challenge and I have looked! Most of my funds have gone into the Chevelle so funds are tight now though andI have the truck on hand.

The 58 will be a hot rod truck that can tow a trailer with my Chevelle on it. I have a picture in my mind on how cool it will look when done.

But back to my original post point, if you look at my Chevelle, it has a lot of at least Hot Rod influence if not Street Rod influence. To me, in my mind, my car is more of a "Street Rod" than the factory original Model T coming through the gate. It's more of a Street Rod than the busses, ambulances, hearses, and SOME delivery trucks coming through the gate.

The year alone doesn't make it a Street Rod to me. If you can have a 2008 fiberglass car build by a company that resembles a 1940's era car but every bolt on it is still shiney new, and that can get through the gate, but my customized hand rebuilt American made car that's now 40 years old can't make it through the gate, then there's an element of hypocrisy ...in my opinion.

Speedy, I accidentally got caught in the middle of the Cruisin the Coast run ....I was in Biloxi at the time by accident and found myself in the middle of the cruise. Awseome! It looked pretty open and free...like a cruise-in. If there was a formal organized element to it, I missed it. Any car show is better than no car show But cruizin the coast is awesome and I hope it helps to bring money to help rebuild the area.

Steve
The area has been in bad shape after the Storm,But it's coming together,If anyone want's to ever come.Book your room a year ahead....It's the biggest thing we have in our area.They have place's all over to go to see car's when you are at the coast.And a OK swap meet too.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2008, 11:37 PM
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Good Guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lyon
Aint happy with NSRA? Try Goodguys.
Don, please refer to my original post. I LOVE the NSRA! I just don't understand the written in stone commandment of "thou shalt not allow anything newer than 1948 in!" Who determined that 1948 cars are gold and 1949 cars and newer aren't entitled to be on the same grounds? Who makes these rules that a 1949 car can NOT be a Street Rod under ANY circumstance?

Who says a 1940's looking fiberglass reproduction with a Toyota V-6 is a Street Rod and can come right in?

All I'm saying is there's a whole lot of inconsistencies in the Street Rod book of rules and I don't believe that 1949 cars and newer can't be a street rod. I am questioning the rule .... even laws should be questioned once in a while. Obeyed yes, but the logic behind them needs to withstand scrutiny.

...and as for the Good Guys..I go to their shows too! I'm not prejudiced, I like cool cars! ...Show me a card carrying NSRA member that can't stand a cool 50's car? Most are car guys and pretty goodguys themselves.

The one fear I have read now from others are that a bunch of guys would get upset and never come back if they allowed newer than 48 in. You know, most are car guys and most are adults and won't go home crying fowl and never come back. Maybe some, but a fair amount would maybe be back the next year with their other car; the 57 Chevy or 69 Camaro sitting in the garage net to the 32 Duece.

And maybe he'll have his son or daughter drive it in for him to park next to his Duece? Maybe you'll have a larger influx of younger people to help keep the shows going for the next generation?

All I'm trying to do is discuss the logic of a 1949 not being a street rod? Why isn't it? Why isn't a 55 Chevy gasser a "street rod"? I even went here to try to find an answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Rod

Steve

Last edited by 58Apache; 08-21-2008 at 05:59 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:15 AM
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I may be wrong but I was always told that the reason for that year split was most cars had running boards till 48 and in 49 almost if not every manufacturer did away with them. Down here pre 49 is called a street rod and post 48 is called a street machine. Any vehicle can be a hot rod.Absolutely nothing wrong with a street machine just different from a street rod.I love them all and have had them all.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedydeedy
In Mississippi they have Crusin the coast every October.They are open to 1980 I think and had approximately 6000 cars.It used to be better when only about 4000 showed up.As big as the area is it still gets too crowded.They should cut it back to about 1972 IMHO.But street rod events should stay pre 49.I like all the different cars but I also like the different type of shows.


If you think it was to crowded and alot of traffic jams ..wait till this year ..they got the roads all tore up and it is one lane in each direction most of the strip. I have decided not to put my car through that mess.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58Apache
.........All I'm trying to do is discuss the logic of a 1949 not being a street rod? Why isn't it? Why isn't a 55 Chevy gasser a "street rod"?.........
Steve
There has always been a blurred line between the terms street rod, hot rod, and custom. Just because someone posted their definition in a wiki doesn't make it so. That said, I believe the NSRA will eventually let the newer cars in to all their shows but when it comes to the Nats they will have to find a new venue because Louisville just isn't big enough.

Let me play devil's advocate here...

I believe the NSRA allowing the newer cars into some shows now is a "trial balloon" to see how the "membership" responds. They're looking at the attendance data to see if they loose street rod participitation at those events. There is a large fraction of the hobby that simply doesn't want the newer cars in the shows. If they decide not to attend then chances are the NSRA will not continue to allow them, if they don't seem to mind then I believe you will see all events allow the newer cars...... but that's a big IF.

Remember the NSRA membership is made up of primarily 50 ish and up guys who are set in their ways and very possibly a large number of them might not want things changed. Their view is that the GoodGuys shows meet that need and if they wanted to go to a show that allows the newer cars then they would join GoodGuys. I'm not saying thats the way everyone feels but my guess is that there is a large percentage that agrees with that line of thinking.

Only time will tell if the membership will tolerate the newer cars and I fully expect we will have an answer sometime in the next couple years. The NSRA is going to have to make a decision sooner or later. They just want to make sure they're not going to tick off the majority of their membership in the process. My $.02 anyway.

Now when it comes to the definition of terms....

A hot rod can be a street rod, but not all street rods are hot rods. Also not all hot rods are street rods. A street rod can be a custom but most customs are not street rods or hot rods. So you can in some cases have a street rod that is a custom and a hot rod or none of the above. Hope that makes it crystal clear.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline

A hot rod can be a street rod, but not all street rods are hot rods. Also not all hot rods are street rods. A street rod can be a custom but most customs are not street rods or hot rods. So you can in some cases have a street rod that is a custom and a hot rod or none of the above. Hope that makes it crystal clear.
Sonovagun - that's almost the same definition I gave my wife when I started building my car. No wonder she still has no clue and still refers to it as 'that car'

Now, I have to go to the shop and try to figure out why the transmission in 'that car', which has never been run, is still leaking at the pan area after installing a new cast aluminum pan and now my 3rd gasket and only 4 quarts of oil in it so far.

Dave W
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
That said, I believe the NSRA will eventually let the newer cars in to all their shows but when it comes to the Nats they will have to find a new venue because Louisville just isn't big enough.
In theory ... I totally agree ... and have said so here prior ... but in reality, when it happens ... NOT IF IT HAPPENS ... I believe they will be able to have it at Louisville. With the crowd getting older, some folks not going because of the expense and others just tired of it being in the same old place every year ...combined with those who WILL NOT attend with the newer cars allowed. Louisville could work. The record number was 13 thousand or so. This year was claimed to be 10, 700 something. We all know at least one thousand or more of those 10 thousand were not there. Some folks registered and then did not make it. Lots of NSRA members registered but left their car at home ( like in Low Show AZ ) Which is the smart way to be a spectator I guarantee at least 3 or 4 thousand of the ones there ... would not be there if the newer models were allowed ( like ME ) ... so there will be room at Louisville ... in the not so distant future.

NSRA is primarily owned by the Vernon Walker family and the Bugg family. I was told by a higher up NSRA guy the when the newer models being allowed in came up ... it was the Bugg family side pushing it. It was put to a vote and the Bugg side had own a higher percentage of NSRA so the newer models were allowed in at certain events as a trial issue as a compromise.

Time changes a lot of things. A few of the higher up NSRA officials have retired ( old age ) and a few have died off or quit. It is only a matter of time before the newer stuff is allowed.

I think it will happen ... but when it does ... the NSRA events will be nothing more than a GoodGuys event IMHO.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 03:00 PM
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In this case change is not good. When I go to a rod run I want to see rods not a jumbled mess of everything. I can go to a cruise nite for that. Tim
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:27 PM
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Change for the sake of change?

I see the point that you can see a mix of cars at a cruise-in! I see the point that guys want things to stay the same, and yes that some will not come anymore, and yes it would be similar to a Good-guys event. All valid points!

But here's some things to consider as well:
  • When that Duece attended the first NSRA National event in 1968? .... that 1932 car was only 36 years old!
  • In order to equal the age difference that my 1958 truck has today, if you were to drive an equal age vehicle into that first NSRA event, you would have had to drive through the gates in a HORSE AND BUGGY!
  • If you want to stop change, you shouldn't have allowed the fiberglass bodies in.
  • If you wanted to make sure you got only street rods you should have stopped
    the restoration to factory original Model T's and others. The fire trucks, tow trucks, utility vehicles...in most cases I could argue are NOT street rods!
  • I won't even get into Rat Rods.

At least my car can be considered a hot rod and my 58 Apache will be when done...even though it has a tow function. My car DOES have hot rod AND Street Rod INFLUENCE in it as well as drive train.

Now, let's talk about the cars INSIDE the buildings the last several years. I don't think I need to remind you that at LEAST half the cars INSIDE the buildings have been cars newer than 1948 for several years now.

Did you notice the Camaro only vendor booth doing a booming business on Saturday? Did you notice the frames and suspension parts for Camaros and Chevelles available at Heidts and Flaming River? Or Last year the vendor selling fiberglass Camaro and Cuda bodies?

I have been buying parts for my Chevelle there at the Nat the last 7 years! The drive train in my Chevelle and in most street rods are EXACTLY the SAME.

I bought my wheels at the nats several years ago, the alternator, wiring harness, and my A/C system in my Chevelle is from Vintage Air. Many other smaller parts on my Chevelle are also purchase from the Nats over the past 7 years.

Those vendors have been selling parts AT the nats for cars other than Street Rods for years now and they are showing it more and more in the products on display. So while nobody advertises it, the business of selling parts there has had an underground market going for years that is driving some of the change you see in the cars, and parts on display inside.

If you looked close, the new parts being judged for new product of the year ..some were for cars too new to be a street rod...by year definition.

Now let's talk NHRA. I won't go to one of their events. It's too danged expensive AND it appears to be mostly just racing. That is NOT what Hot Rods are ALL about, only one element. I think that the guy with the 55 gasser
would love to bring his car to a non-race car show about good ole American iron.

The guy with the cool 58 Impala or 59 El Camino would LOVE to come to a place they didn't have to pay a fortune to attend and then only watch racing. I know they can do it at a Good-Guys show, but what about the guys in the south that don't want to drive to Columbus?

Do you realize that if James Dean came back to life today and tried to drive through the gates in his Merc at the Nats they would turn him away by today's rules? How cool is that?

I agree with Duece that it WILL change. It's only a matter of time. The point I'd like to make is that if you MANAGE the change, instead of fighting it, you can limit it and manage it better than the Street Rod situation today of a whole lot of non street-rods coming through the gates.

Just because it's pre 49 doesn't make it a "Street Rod" ! But it is likely a street driven hot rod... which ....sure does get confusing ....

Steve

Last edited by 58Apache; 08-22-2008 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Make it easier to read
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58Apache
When that Duece attended the first NSRA National event in 1968? .... that 1932 car was only 36 years old!
Steve ... two glaring errors ...

1) The first NSRA Nationals was 39 years ago ... not in 1968
2) and I have a D E U CE ... not a Duece.

The fiberglass bodies and the original cars, old fire trucks and such is a very, very gray area. It is not Black and white. If they had a Chevelle Super Sport show ... do you think your car should be allowed in ? I bet the guys with a 118 car ( the number in the VIN of a real SS car ) would not think so. A lowly Malibu is not a real SS ... Gray area ... very gray. Your car shares some of the same stuff as a real SS ... but is it ??
No

A am not a fan of the fire trucks, restored Model A's and such but they do met the pre 49 rule. I do not like the rat rods either but ... they cannot all be what I like.

There's no use in whizzing and moaning about this. NSRA is a business and they will decide when and where ( and IF ) the rules change.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Steve ... two glaring errors ...

Well, how about a possible "nuther error"

Quote:
If they had a Chevelle Super Sport show ... do you think your car should be allowed in ? I bet the guys with a 118 car ( the number in the VIN of a real SS car )
I am not a Chevelle expert, but I think they are 138 codes?, not 118?


I'm not trying to match wits with Deuce....he's got us all beat IMO I actually think he hit the wrong key...I'd bet on it
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:29 PM
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Facts are facts

So I was one year off and can't spell? It doesn't change the facts.

The VIN on an SS is 138 on most but 136 on 69's and 70's.

In 1969 the SS was an option that only included engine size, front disc brakes and emblems. A Malibu was one step below the SS with 2 more steps to go below that. If I wanted to make mine an SS clone I could have easily done that, but didn't try.

I can assure you my car is NOT "lowly".

I PURPOSELY modified my car in MANY ways after being influenced by Street Rods and a little pro street influence maybe?

An all SS show doesn't exist to my knowledge, but my custom coupe fits in fine at Super Chevy and Good Guy's shows....yet I feel the street rod influence that I purposely built into it, maybe makes it fit in better among street rods than any other classification? ..my personal opinion. I realize it's not yours or many others.

When I talk to my Chevelle buds they don't understand the Street Rod community and yeah they could learn a lot from you. I am thankful for my Street Rod friends because I did learn a lot from them.

But it's all American Iron and we can make them whatever we want them to be. There are no distinct lines between cool custom cars. They are all good!

Steve
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2008, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F&J
I am not a Chevelle expert, but I think they are 138 codes?, not 118?

I'm not trying to match wits with Deuce....he's got us all beat IMO I actually think he hit the wrong key...I'd bet on it
Typo ... but a error just the same. I have owned a 65 Chevelle SS, a 1967 Chevelle SS, and 3 1970 Chevelle Super Sports ( 2 coupes and a El Camino ) All tagged, registered and insured.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 58Apache
1) So I was one year off and can't spell? It doesn't change the facts.


2) In 1969 the SS was an option that only included engine size, front disc brakes and emblems. If I wanted to make mine an SS clone I could have easily done that, but didn't try.

3) I can assure you my car is NOT "lowly".

4) I PURPOSELY modified my car in MANY ways after being influenced by Street Rods and a little pro street influence maybe?

5) my custom coupe fits in fine at Super Chevy and Good Guy's shows....yet I feel the street rod influence that I purposely built into it, maybe makes it fit in better among street rods than any other classification? ..my personal opinion. I realize it's not yours or many others.

When I talk to my Chevelle buds they don't understand the Street Rod community and yeah they could learn a lot from you. I am thankful for my Street Rod friends because I did learn a lot from them.

6 )They are all good!

Steve
1) You are a good fellow ... but you cannot change the facts that you have been the only member wanting the change ...

2) You also got a better dash, a 12 bolt rear end and other upgrades with a real Super Sport ... a clone is just a nice way of saying FAKE. I would much rather have your Chevelle as is that have it try to be a fake SS.

3) I totally agree ... it is not lowly ... I like it but then the guys with the restored cars, fire trucks and rat rods feel their vehicles are not LOWLY either and meet the age requirement and want in the NSRA Nationals

4) And you did a good job. I actually like it ... @ a GoodGuys show

5) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion ...

6) They are all good !!
I like most things that makes noise, goes fast and eats up a lot of my time and money ...

Like I said ... we just have a difference of opinion and if we lived near each other ... we would be hanging out, helping each other on our projects and learning from each other.

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Old 08-23-2008, 08:32 AM
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Managing change

Well I would HOPE we'd be friends and hang out. Overall, car guys in general are pretty cool to hang out and have fun with

Yeah, I admit, I seem to be in a small minority here if not the only one? ...or the only one willing to challenge the thinking of some stubborn guys not willing to share the playground?

But the changes started happening years ago a little at a time. The last couple of years at the other NSRA shows they started letting newer cars in, so you know it's only a matter of time.

I think it's about time to think about how you can influence the change, instead of ignoring it until it hits hard with no control of what happens.

Steve
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:05 AM
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I don't want the change period.There are car shows to match everybody's type of car. Just go to the ones you like and bring your car where it fits in. I love all cars and go to many different type events,but when there is a Ford vs Chevy drag race I don't see any Mopar fans trying to get their cars in.James Dean was a cool character in his movies. In real life he was a drunken idiot. Don't confuse the actor with the performance.And yes his Merc was way cool but is not a street rod and doesn't belong at an NSRA event.Will anybody with more knowledge than me chime in on the comment I made about breaking the street rod year because of the running boards?
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