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-   -   NSRA - open to newer cars? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/nsra-open-newer-cars-143758.html)

58Apache 08-19-2008 07:55 PM

NSRA - open to newer cars?
 
Ok, time to stir the pot. First off I LOVE the NSRA as an organization and I only want to see it succeed. I love going the Nationals in Louisville, but don't have a car that qualifies- Pre-1948.

I know they are open to almost all other events, but as of this last event they are still holding out to pre-48 cars at the Louisville Nationals.

Ok, so if you're one that thinks they should not allow newer than 1948 in, please answer the following questions:

I watched cars come in that are new fiberglass bodies that only slightly resemble the originals. Are these Street Rods?

The giveaway car, the symbolic ultimate representative car of Street Rodders are almost always a new manufacture that only loosely resembles pre-48 cars....and sometimes just barely recognizable as pre-48. Are these Street Rods?

I watched as fire trucks, tow trucks, busses, Rat Rods and show room original restored cars came right on in to the Street Rod show as welcome as can be. Are these street rods?

Who can afford to even buy a mess of original metal that qualifies? Have you seen what these things are trying to sell for finished? How's a guy supposed to be able to afford a project car that qualifies? Don't tell me E-bay, buckets of rust go for big bucks!

I'd much rather look at a nice 55 Chevy than a fire truck or an original tin lizzy, but they are cool too!

So do I have to wait for a bunch of geezers to let go of the keys on the way to the funeral home or do you think I can bring my 58 Apache and 69 Chevelle in soon?

Steve

trees 08-19-2008 08:30 PM

Steve, you have raised some good points that have been discussed in our local car club whose charter says you have to be a member of NSRA to be a member of the club. And, yes we are a bunch of old geezers, and we realize something has to change or we are doomed to a slow death. We are reworking our charter to state membership in NSRA is required, but you don't have to have a NSRA qualified vehicle (Pre 48, which is currently stated). We have petitioned NSRA to consider a change to their criteria to raise the bar to a 40 year old vehicle immediately and then keep adding a year ever year to maintain. When NSRA was formed, they looked at 20 year old vehicles and said "OK, 1948 is it". Just think, if they had said vehicles of 20 years or older, look where we would be: 1988 and older. I don't find that unreasonable, but do find sticking with 1948 is very unreasonable unless growing old and obsolete is your objective. If something is not done soon, NSRA will go the way of the dinosaur in the near future!!!

Maybe NSRA members on this board should inundate NSRA to change their charter!!!

Trees

F&J 08-19-2008 08:57 PM

Quote:

How's a guy supposed to be able to afford a project car that qualifies?
It's not that hard unless you are talking the most desireable. I know I could find an early car from the late 20s to early 30s for almost any reasonable budget. Then if we go up to the 40s, there's tons of cars for cheap. The key is, "how bad do you really want one". They are out there.



I've never been to a nats, but recent posts on forums put the car attendance at 10,000 to ? Wow. Now, if you make it 57 & older, just think of the numbers! I can't imagine the increase.

I prefer old traditional builds myself, and those cars don't come out much at the shows here in New England. We did have one real good oldie show but the club cabcelled it forever due to the work, it was reported.

Now that show brought out a lot of cars that NEVER come out. The owners are not really into going to a mixed show. I'm bummed about that, but don't blame them. A few shows have wanted to be the replacement, but are not picky about what cars come, so it turns "mixed" and the oldies stay home.
I would think the nats would suffer if they changed the year?...once you ruin something, it is hard to rebuild it.

Deuce 08-19-2008 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58Apache

1) I know they are open to almost all other events, but as of this last event they are still holding out to pre-48 cars at the Louisville Nationals.

2) I watched cars come in that are new fiberglass bodies that only slightly resemble the originals. Are these Street Rods?

3) The giveaway car, the symbolic ultimate representative car of Street Rodders are almost always a new manufacture that only loosely resembles pre-48 cars....and sometimes just barely recognizable as pre-48. Are these Street Rods?

4) I watched as fire trucks, tow trucks, busses, Rat Rods and show room original restored cars came right on in to the Street Rod show as welcome as can be. Are these street rods?


5) So do I have to wait for a bunch of geezers to let go of the keys on the way to the funeral home or do you think I can bring my 58 Apache and 69 Chevelle in soon?

Steve

http://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/data/500/Nats_08.jpg

Here's you ( no hat and in a Street Rod shirt ) Myself ... center ... then Centerline in the Jegs cap :D
Photo taken at the NSRA Nationals 2008


I will attempt to answer the questions in order ;)

1) NSRA only has a few events they allow the newer stuff in. Those events are small ... and a few may not be on the schedule in the future ... due to lack of participation. ( locations and the new format may be the main cause for failure ... who knows ) The newer vehicles did not turn out in big numbers and the street rods stayed away in numbers.

2) Fiberglass rods have become accepted ... by some ... because of supply and demand. In your own thread ... the price of steel cars dictate that fiberglass cars be allowed.

3) Next year the give away car is a steel 32 3W coupe ... I believe.
I know ... NSRA gives away what it can get donated. The fiberglass guys donate to get " ink " and their product out. Simple economics.

4) Fire trucks, tow trucks, busses, Rat Rods and show room originals .... all were old enough and are potential old hot rods. And their owners had the 35 dollars to enter them also ... a big factor :rolleyes:

5) I agree most of us " old geezers " with the keys to the 32 Fords, 40 Fords and other old rides are getting older ... and I will have to DIE before someone gets my keys to my two 32's ... but you can always take your 69 Chevelle and 58 truck to the GoodGuys show in Columbus Ohio ( which is closer than Louisville anyway ).

The fact is ... if NSRA opened up the registration to the later models ( 30 year slide rule now in place at a few selected NSRA events ) ... where would they hold the Nationals ?? There are only a very few places ... centrally located in the United States that could handle such a event.

GoodGuys allows most anything like you suggest in ... with the entry fee ( after all ... it is a business ) yet they cannot draw the numbers that NSRA does. Nationals compared to Nationals. GoodGuys has been in business 20 years or more so it is not a new organization fighting a older organization issue.

NSRA must be doing something RIGHT ...

signed
Deuce ... Lifetime NSRA member with a very low membership number :thumbup: very, very low 2 thousand # ... yes I have been doing this longer than a lot of the members here have been alive ...

speedydeedy 08-19-2008 09:43 PM

DEUCE,I couldn't agree more.As far as affordable old iron,as was stated,it depends on what you want.Last year I bought a 31 model A coupe for $4000.00.Just a body and front axle and rad with shell and clear title.I am building everything else myself. You can find 40s cars ready to drive for 15 to 20 thousand.If you want to play you have to pay.Everybody plays according to their income.I can't have a $60,000.00 street rod,but I don't hate the people who can.I vote to keep NSRA as is.JMO. :thumbup:

Deuce 08-19-2008 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedydeedy
As far as affordable old iron,as was stated,it depends on what you want.Last year I bought a 31 model A coupe for $4000.00

I agree that there are a good many older pre 49 steel vehicles out there for not a ton of money. Unfortunately ... 4 grand is a LOT of money for some folks. As a Moderator here, I see lots of questions about doing something " on a budget " :D Everyone has a budget ... some just has a LOT higher number than others.

Money factors into most every hobby. The guys with money have the rarest stamps, the best guns or the best stuff in their hobby. A lot of the time, not only do they have the best ... they have the MOST too.

If you build cars as a hobby ... for the enjoyment of building, gathering parts and then driving your creation ... ( like I do :D ) it does not really matter which vehicle you choose as long as you like it. I happen to like 1932 Fords ... and have been doing this hobby long enough to have a pair of them. One open car and one closed car ... but I enjoyed a 40 Ford a lot also. Sometimes a fellow needs to build equity ... in a vehicle ... sell it and work towards something else he wants. I am fairly certain that if 58 Apache sold his Chevelle ... and his 58 Apache ... he would have more than enough $$$ to get a NSRA eligible vehicle ... :thumbup:

F&J 08-19-2008 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deuce
Sometimes a fellow needs to build equity ... in a vehicle ... sell it and work towards something else he wants. I am fairly certain that if 58 Apache sold his Chevelle ... and his 58 Apache ... he would have more than enough $$$ to get a NSRA eligible vehicle ... :thumbup:


Just re-read the original post.... The way I take it, is that he does not want a different car, he want's NSRA to let his current cars in.



I am all in favor of shows having some sort of dress code :D . I already gave my views on what can happen if you let anyone, bring anything.

58Apache 08-19-2008 10:08 PM

Nice Picture!s.
 
Now THAT is 3 good looking guys! ;)

Ok, yes NSRA is doing something right! I like the org and their shows. I just can't afford a car that qualifies for the Nats. Good Guys is ok and I try to go there too when I can. Same with Super Chevy shows.

But just the law of attrition will force change sooner or later. Fiberglass became accepted, and so have customs and even rat rods
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/newr...e=1&p=1008989#
But just as with TV shows that are car related have become infomercials rather than how to do something for little money, this hobby has had the sharks circling the 401K withdrawal ATM's

Sure I can buy a new steel 32 or even a fiberglass one ...but even the repros have price tags of 24k and higher! A chassis will cost you 15 grand.

They say that muscle cars have skyrocketed but while there were plenty of cars for sale the prices were often above 50 grand. So you look for a pile of junk to build on a budget and realize that even though tons of parts for 32's are available, it just so happens that anything relating to a 32 carries a premium price tag!

Now add to that the fact that the numbers HAVE gone down, and major sponsors such as GM have pulled out, ...remember the prototype cars they used to show?

Unless some miracle happens, I'll wait and go to the shows that allow my cars in. I like most Street Rodders and have learned a lot! I love going to the shows.

ok....I'll wait. As it was with my in-laws, time is on my side....unless I expire first. I'll wait ya out ;).........maybe I'll disguise my 58 as a 48 with some fiberglass ...or make it a rat rod so nobody can tell what it is?

Steve

schnitz 08-19-2008 10:19 PM

It almost looks photo-chopped. Centerline is smiling so I'll call a bluff..... :thumbup:

As an owner of more than likely a car that "could" end up at a show like that if they changed the rules to allow revolving years, I feel I'd have to stay at home to not tarnish what a street rod is, or the "reputation" they carry forth. Let's face it, by 1954, all the individuality in automobile styling left the factory. Today's new cars are simply a re-hash of those designs. Don't believe me? Take a look at an HHR. I say leave it as is. To add to what was previously stated, if you want to play, you'll find a way...



In a while, Chet.

Deuce 08-19-2008 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58Apache

Ok, yes NSRA is doing something right! I like the org and their shows. I just can't afford a car that qualifies for the Nats. Good Guys is ok and I try to go there too when I can. Same with Super Chevy shows.

Steve

If NSRA changed it's guidelines and let the newer cars come to the Nationals ... it just would just be another GoodGuys style event.

:embarrass

What is the point ... ???
Some folks would rather just do the pre 49 thing. I like Chevelles ( had a few ... years ago ) had a 55 Chevy pickup ( Cameo ) ... and I could look at some of them and enjoy the workmanship but when you raise the line ... all the other stuff slips in also. I am not going to list the undesirables ... ( do not want to offend any one ) ... but there's a LOT higher percentage of junk at a GoodGuys event IMHO.

There is the Charlotte NC GoodGuys event less than 2 hours from my home. It has been held there for 15 years. I have been three or four times. Knoxville NSRA has been held since 1984. It is 5 hours from my home. I have missed Knoxville NSRA once ... ( I had been real sick and had just gotten out of the hospital ).

Things will eventually change ... as us old guys die out and quit going ... just not anytime soon.

Just my nickel ...

Deuce 08-19-2008 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F&J
Just re-read the original post.... The way I take it, is that he does not want a different car, he want's NSRA to let his current cars in.

You cannot show a Chevette at a Corvette show.
Cannot show my 1932 Ford at a Ferrari event.
My 1932 Ford hot rod is NOT Welcome at a Antique Auto Club of America event :nono: but it is old enough and real steel.

Sometimes you just have to have the required vehicle ... to get in the event ... :thumbup:

speedydeedy 08-20-2008 07:14 AM

[QUOTE=58Apache]Now THAT is 3 good looking guys! ;)

Ok, yes NSRA is doing something right! I like the org and their shows. I just can't afford a car that qualifies for the Nats. Good Guys is ok and I try to go there too when I can. Same with Super Chevy shows.

But just the law of attrition will force change sooner or later. Fiberglass became accepted, and so have customs and even rat rods
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/newr...e=1&p=1008989#
But just as with TV shows that are car related have become infomercials rather than how to do something for little money, this hobby has had the sharks circling the 401K withdrawal ATM's

Sure I can buy a new steel 32 or even a fiberglass one ...but even the repros have price tags of 24k and higher! A chassis will cost you 15 grand.

They say that muscle cars have skyrocketed but while there were plenty of cars for sale the prices were often above 50 grand. So you look for a pile of junk to build on a budget and realize that even though tons of parts for 32's are available, it just so happens that anything relating to a 32 carries a premium price tag!

Now add to that the fact that the numbers HAVE gone down, and major sponsors such as GM have pulled out, ...remember the prototype cars they used to show?

Unless some miracle happens, I'll wait and go to the shows that allow my cars in. I like most Street Rodders and have learned a lot! I love going to the shows.

ok....I'll wait. As it was with my in-laws, time is on my side....unless I expire first. I'll wait ya out ;).........maybe I'll disguise my 58 as a 48 with some fiberglass ...or make it a rat rod so nobody can tell what it is?QUOTE /STEVE

Everybody has diffs in opinion. I was always under the impression that any car can be a hotrod but pre 49 is a streetrod and after that it is a street machine.As DEUCE said you could sell yours and get an older car. It doesn't have to be a 32. As he said that is the highest price street rod out there. Just move up or down a couple years and they are a lot more affordable.As for as making a rat rod out of your 58,Even stripped down it looks nothing like a 48,but you could build a 48 rat rod fairly cheap.Instead of trying to change the rules,build a car that fits the shows you want to enter.As far as a $7,000.00 frame,The tubing costs about $150.00 to build your own and a model A frame is one of the easiest to build. JMO :thumbup:

lets cut it up 08-20-2008 08:05 AM

I think they should stay pre-48. if you change it will ruin the shows...Look what happened to the 55-57 Chevy people when they started letting any year chevy in the shows. The shows were a disaster. I know I want to see 55-57 when I went to the shows, not a mass gaggle of all years. They have other show for the mass gaggle type people.

Oh and you can still find some old iron for good prices..I have a 34 ford tu-door sedan that I picked up for 5 grand. It is apart and needs some work but the body is unchopped and original so i can cut that sucker any way i want. Jmo Tim

cboy 08-20-2008 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58Apache
How's a guy supposed to be able to afford a project car that qualifies?

Invest 1,700 hours of time and $5,000 of your hard earned cash. And if you don't set your sights on being the billet king of the runway, you can drive a car like this into any NSRA show.

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1993266900.jpg

Granted, you won't win "Best Paint" or "Best Engine" or "Best ANYTHING", but you can still command your fair share of attention and supportive comments as well as having a great time.

Yes, there are many streetrods with $50K price tags at NSRA events. But there are also many shadetree builds as well. There is absolutely no question in my mind that ANY modestly capable hotrodder with a decently equipped garage can build an equivalent car to this or BETTER at a very reasonable cost (under $6K). If I can do it, Steve can certainly do it, as can a majority of others on this site.

Regarding attendance at NSRA events which HAVE been opened up to later model cars...Deuce is on target. The Milwaukee show, which I regularly attended, was canceled this year due to poor attendance over the past two years. My guess is for every post '48 car that showed up, two pre '48 cars declined to come. This is further born out by the fact that Wisconsin also has a Goodguys show (no pre- '48 restrictions) and that show is also struggling in terms of attendance and may well be eliminated in the near future.

While the jury may still be out regarding the effects of the "pre - '48" rule, I think the evidence thus far would indicate that eliminating the rule does not result in huge numbers at the show grounds.

steve392 08-20-2008 08:55 AM

Going to the Northeast Nationals in Burlington VT next month. It's one of the "mixed" NSRA shows. I'll let you know how it turns out. Looks like a smaller show, with maybe about 1200 entries. The report in last year's StreetScene regarding the 2007 event stated there were about 1400 entries if I remember correctly. Truth be told, we're going just as much for the fall foliage as the show.
There's also an "independent" show (Wheels of Time) this weekend in Macungie PA, if anyone is local, and also the Goodguys show that used to be in Hershey PA and is now at Pocono Raceway is next weekend if anyone is interested.

Steve


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