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-   -   nv4500 or 4l80e? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/nv4500-4l80e-170534.html)

chevy1500z71 12-27-2009 08:18 AM

nv4500 or 4l80e?
 
so i blew up my 60e today. been working on putting gears in my buddys jeep all day and finishing up my exhaust. finally finished my exhaust up by about 9:00, ready to head out to wendys for some dinner and i gave it a little juice, the trans flashed up and ever since all the drive gears are just like neutral pushed it to a nearby parking lot and my bro towed me home. today has been the longest day ever, did gears in the jeep, finished my exhaust system up, blew up my trans, and somehow made it out a to a party, im ready to go to bed.

so heres the deal, the truck isn't going to be a daily driver forever, do i really need the practicality of an automatic? an nv4500 will last forever, better mpgs, more power to the rear wheels. what would you guys do if you were in my position. putting another 4l60e is simply not an option. every one of my freinds tell me im a fool to want a stick... what do you all think?

some information on the truck, its a 95 half ton truck, transmission is the last week link, got a built small block with a blower, 14 bolt rear end, 4.56/detroit 35" tires, i do a little off roading with it and i run it at the drag strip every now and then as well, but it is still my daily driver. my future plans are to retire this truck of its daily driver duty's and possibly do a solid front axle swap, but for now, its my daily and it will be for quite some time.

blyne3 12-27-2009 10:08 AM

If you want to do off-roading I would go with the automatic. When ever I went out in a stick I only had 2 legs and three pedals and hated slipping the clutch.

You can get a 4L60-E to stand up to your horsepower and wouldn't have to change your computer, driveshaft, transfer case, wiring, ect like you will if you change it to a 4L80 or NV4500.

chevy1500z71 12-27-2009 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blyne3
If you want to do off-roading I would go with the automatic. When ever I went out in a stick I only had 2 legs and three pedals and hated slipping the clutch.

You can get a 4L60-E to stand up to your horsepower and wouldn't have to change your computer, driveshaft, transfer case, wiring, ect like you will if you change it to a 4L80 or NV4500.

im not intimidated by changing the tune, i can have my ecm working with a stick in 5 minutes, its literally a check box in my ecm labeled "standerd transmission". i can not get a 60e to hold up, i had one that was supposedly built to hold 700hp wiht 3 trans coolers and it blew up.

M&M CUSTOM 12-27-2009 02:21 PM

I personally would go with the 4500 if I had the choice.

chevy1500z71 12-27-2009 02:55 PM

iv decided on the nv4500. it will be more fun, more hp, more reliable, better mpg. all that is more then worth not being able to eat food while im driving lol, thats about all i can think of that im giving up here.

M&M CUSTOM 12-27-2009 06:10 PM

Quote:

. . . all that is more then worth not being able to eat food while im driving lol, thats about all i can think of that im giving up here.
Being a professional truck driver for 2 years, I can certainly tell you I ate and drank plenty of times in all kinds of traffic and weather while eating and did all that with an Eaton RT-10 ten speed transmission. You get very creative when you need to be.

Not saying it's safe or sane, but ask ANY truck driver if they eat, read maps, do paperwork, etc. while driving and if they say anything other than yes, their lying to you.

chevy1500z71 12-27-2009 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M CUSTOM
Being a professional truck driver for 2 years, I can certainly tell you I ate and drank plenty of times in all kinds of traffic and weather while eating and did all that with an Eaton RT-10 ten speed transmission. You get very creative when you need to be.

Not saying it's safe or sane, but ask ANY truck driver if they eat, read maps, do paperwork, etc. while driving and if they say anything other than yes, their lying to you.

lol, i know what your talking about. i seem to always loose my job around the holidays and end up working seasonal help as a jumper with ups. those guys can drive a stick lol.

i guess when ya get good at it, it really isnt a big deal. see, iv never really driven a stick, i mean i have, but just here and there. never ona daily basis. so im just kind of doing this swap and hoping ill like it, maybe its stupid, but i dont think its a big deal.

chevy1500z71 12-27-2009 08:50 PM

alright, well iv decided on the nv4500, so rather then start a new thread, im going to go ahead and change the direction of this thread a bit with some questions about actually executing this swap.

mainly, im just not familiar with manual transmissions. im sure they are very simple, so what is involved in freshening one up besides a new clutch obviously. also, what is a good clutch that will hold around 500 or so hp.

also isee there are several models available, about 4 or so. internal slave cylinder, external throw out bearing and fork, a few different tops, ect. this all has me bit confused, can anyone shed some light on this confusion so i can make sense of what parts i need to be searching for.

the beuty of this swap is that this transmission was an option on my truck in 2500 models, mines a 1500 but its the same deal. so im hoping ill find a truck at the junkyard(probably a 1 ton chevy) that i can just steal everything from.

M&M CUSTOM 12-28-2009 10:44 PM

Get nothing less than a 12 inch clutch, and between the Borg & Beck 3-finger pressure plate and diaphram multi-finger type go with the multiple finger one, usually they require less effort to operate and hold the same as the other type.

You should be able to get everything you need for the conversion from the junkyard except a new clutch and associated usual "clutch replacement" stuff, clutch plate, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bushing, and that leave you with just looking for junkyard parts of the flywheel and all the bolts in it, transmission and bellhousing, and clutch pedal and all it's associated hardware, and the hydraulic stuff between the pedal pushrod and slave cylinder in (or on) the bellhousing.

And if you can find it, the earlier ones have a better gear ratio for first gear.

chevy1500z71 12-29-2009 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M CUSTOM
Get nothing less than a 12 inch clutch, and between the Borg & Beck 3-finger pressure plate and diaphram multi-finger type go with the multiple finger one, usually they require less effort to operate and hold the same as the other type.

You should be able to get everything you need for the conversion from the junkyard except a new clutch and associated usual "clutch replacement" stuff, clutch plate, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bushing, and that leave you with just looking for junkyard parts of the flywheel and all the bolts in it, transmission and bellhousing, and clutch pedal and all it's associated hardware, and the hydraulic stuff between the pedal pushrod and slave cylinder in (or on) the bellhousing.

And if you can find it, the earlier ones have a better gear ratio for first gear.

couldnt find anything locally, called all the salvage yards in florida and didnt find much. found a salvage yard in kentucky that im buying the stuff from. im getting everything from the bell housing all the way back to the transfer case, pedels, shifter, master cylinder, wiring, everything for 900 bucks shipped to my door, its all got 130,000 miles on it. i went with the 95+ mw3 code transmission because it has a 3.04 second gear, i don't want the early models 3.44 ratio. the current transmission im using has a 3.06 first and i feel its a little low, so 3.44 would not do. and for the first gear, if i ever use it anyway, i doubt ill need 6.30something, this one has a 5.8something. should work out well.

as of now im going with the centerforce dual friction clutch kit(multiple finger style pressure plate) and it is a 12" clutch. im unsure about the flywheel tho. the factory flywheel for this application is external balance and i have an internal balance motor. the cheapest flywheel listed on summit is over $250 for internal balance. what do you think about this flywheel?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

what do you think about my clutch choice? i have no idea if its good or not really, cant find any reviews. i really want to make sure i get a clutch that will hold the massive amount of torque this motor puts out and the larger tires and i want it to last too.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-DF024909/
its a pretty good price, but thats because it doesnt come with the throwout bearing or alignment tool.

M&M CUSTOM 12-29-2009 08:50 AM

Not bad choices at all for the flywheel and clutch kit, you can get the alignment tool at a local parts store for less than Summit had listed on the one link you posted, I think I paid less than $2 for mine when I got it.

You might also want to see if you can get the driveshafts for that specific transmission / transfer case combination also, I know they might be different than what you already have, I just don't know by how much.

I was lucky enough to have at least 4 other 2-piece driveshafts in parts storage and could get what I needed just by measuring and swapping the front half when I did my auto to manual transmission swap.

I don't use the 6.55 geared first gear much when starting out in the Suburban, and have actually started out in 3rd gear while pulling my snowplow truck out of where it had been sitting for over 2 years while I was away from home working.

I'm thinking about swapping the suspension under the Suburban from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive next summer, as I have started driving it again and this 9 inches of snow and a driveway on a hill make it a little more difficult to get out when I need to.

chevy1500z71 12-29-2009 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M CUSTOM
Not bad choices at all for the flywheel and clutch kit, you can get the alignment tool at a local parts store for less than Summit had listed on the one link you posted, I think I paid less than $2 for mine when I got it.

You might also want to see if you can get the driveshafts for that specific transmission / transfer case combination also, I know they might be different than what you already have, I just don't know by how much.

I was lucky enough to have at least 4 other 2-piece driveshafts in parts storage and could get what I needed just by measuring and swapping the front half when I did my auto to manual transmission swap.

I don't use the 6.55 geared first gear much when starting out in the Suburban, and have actually started out in 3rd gear while pulling my snowplow truck out of where it had been sitting for over 2 years while I was away from home working.

I'm thinking about swapping the suspension under the Suburban from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive next summer, as I have started driving it again and this 9 inches of snow and a driveway on a hill make it a little more difficult to get out when I need to.

the nv4500 is only 1/8" longer then the 4l60e. i could switch the gasket between the trans/transfer case for silicone to pick up that minor difference lol. my drive shaft was actually a little short because of the 6" lift kit on this truck, then i swapped a 14 bolt rear end in and it shoved the drive shaft back up in there, its about stock now. but the truck has a bit of a lean back to it, im going top put a 1" lift shackle on it, that will pull the driveshaft out a little bit more, and then with the trans 1/8" longer, it should be right on the money. the front drive shaft is a slip shaft and it can give an 1/8 inch obviously. i payed the salvage yard over the phone just a moment ago, all my goodies are on there way, just need to order the clutch, throwout bearing and pilot bearing. ill have to go to the dealer and order the clutch pedel bracket, i doubt the salvage yard will cut the bracket off of the dash sub frame for me. i just have to cross my fingers now that nobody put the wrong fluid in that nv4500, dont want worn out synchros. i wont know till i get it.

well im heading outside now to rip out that pos 4l60e.

chevy1500z71 01-04-2010 07:35 PM

well i went ahead and ordered the centerforce clutch. i got my salvage yard tranmission and parts today. the shift tower is cracked and they left out the brake pedal and shifter boot, overall i didnt do too bad. interior is stripped out and the old trans and transfer case is out. ill keep the thread updated with some pictures if there is any interest.

chevy1500z71 01-04-2010 07:36 PM

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...IMG_1828-1.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...r/IMG_1829.jpg
and a few of my massive parts pile
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...r/IMG_1831.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...r/IMG_1830.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...r/IMG_1832.jpg
they gave me a new frame cross member, its the same exact one as mine but its just got like an adapter bracket that relocates the trans bushing a couple inches forward, nice touch from gm lol.

M&M CUSTOM 01-04-2010 07:45 PM

Start a project journal, I'm interested in your swap progress.


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