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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 07:52 AM
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To the OP. First of all you need to pick one..........build a N.A. engine or a roots blower engine. If you pick N.A. build around the old school platform 0f an LS5 or LS6 but use pistons that will keep compression around the 10.5-1 max. Use the 268h grind cam. You will have the grunt and sound that you need to move that truck pretty good.
For a blower engine....same platform except the largest open chamber heads to achieve a 8.0-1 compression ratio and a cam ground specifically for blower app's.
Use a good forged piston in either build.
For the N.A. see above and add these-------Set of good Hooker 2" real headers(none of this shorty stuff), 3" exhaust, a good high rise 2 plane manifold and a 780 Holley, an MSD distributor, keep it cool, run premium gas and don't rev it over 6500rpm and it will run very well!

For the blower app-----you need to rethink quite a few things that can't be mis-matched to the N.A. If you choose blower engine then we can talk about that at that time.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 08:00 AM
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Need to add---------always run a ZDDP additive with oil changes and break the cam in properly.
You could spray the N.A. if you choose too, but go easy on the power range.....150 shot will be plenty!!
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeny View Post
To the OP. First of all you need to pick one..........build a N.A. engine or a roots blower engine. If you pick N.A. build around the old school platform 0f an LS5 or LS6 but use pistons that will keep compression around the 10.5-1 max. Use the 268h grind cam. You will have the grunt and sound that you need to move that truck pretty good.
For a blower engine....same platform except the largest open chamber heads to achieve a 8.0-1 compression ratio and a cam ground specifically for blower app's.
Use a good forged piston in either build.
For the N.A. see above and add these-------Set of good Hooker 2" real headers(none of this shorty stuff), 3" exhaust, a good high rise 2 plane manifold and a 780 Holley, an MSD distributor, keep it cool, run premium gas and don't rev it over 6500rpm and it will run very well!

For the blower app-----you need to rethink quite a few things that can't be mis-matched to the N.A. If you choose blower engine then we can talk about that at that time.
i was really leaning to the blower. but i see is a little more complicated than i thought. we would run a blower on the ls motors at almost 11 to 1 but that e85 though.that why i thought i take the motor to 10to1 run it na till i get a blower low bost and have a really fun truck i came in to this blind ls's are flat top and there out of the hole and these big blocks are in the hole dished pistons im looking for smaller cam and im thinking of just shaving the heads some and try to get some power
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:32 AM
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I get what you are trying to achieve but again in my opinion you need to pick your induction system style first. I have had some friends some years back attempt the same thinking........both never really achieved their goal. One guy finally admitted that somewhat higher compression, a N.A. cam and running the blower 1-1 was a bad idea. He found out the hard and the expensive way! Either way both these guy's ended up with engine's that ran mediocre for what they were. Don't get me wrong they both ran ok with some power but nothing like they were expecting and the way they should have.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:36 AM
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If you want to study up on how to achieve a good blower engine that produces good power yet be friendly on the street.....look at what Buick did with the 98 Riviera v-6. It was a good marriage, engineered well!
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 08:39 AM
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you really need a goal as an end result.It should have a roller cam no matter what direction you choose.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:41 AM
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There ya go Vinnie.....just call Sonny's, tell them what you want, hand over 30k and be done with it!!!
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeny View Post
I get what you are trying to achieve but again in my opinion you need to pick your induction system style first. I have had some friends some years back attempt the same thinking........both never really achieved their goal. One guy finally admitted that somewhat higher compression, a N.A. cam and running the blower 1-1 was a bad idea. He found out the hard and the expensive way! Either way both these guy's ended up with engine's that ran mediocre for what they were. Don't get me wrong they both ran ok with some power but nothing like they were expecting and the way they should have.
that's y i didn't mind it being a dog on motor knowing that when i got my blower it would shine. the blower was going to take me some time to get as there not cheap but now im kinda stuck. should have researched more before ordering. i already have a set of hooker headers on the truck.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:53 AM
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Ok, now we are getting somewhere! Acquire and install parts with the intention of installing a blower as the final goal. Put up with the slug it will be till the blower goes on. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want to do. If this is your DD and need to do it in increments that's ok. Otherwise park it and then build it as a blower engine with compression, cam, heads in mind that this is the final goal.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 09:34 AM
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read post number 28,good information mostly aimed at racing engines.
I used this cam
Z-55 in a mild 454
254/254, .590"/.590",,lobe center 108
part# 396255
similar heads to yours with bigger valves and clean up.
short block was stock replacement parts with forged pistons
balanced
p-w was .006
victor oval port & 830 Holley, with Hooker headers
I bought the car used with a fresh engine
It cost me $1700.00 to take the engine apart and fix it(not well put together) machined the block,honed and squaered,machined heads for 2.19/1.88 valves,new rod bolts, cam and kit and timing chain,rockers.
my time etc...
you can do a similar build or your own,unfortunately machine shop time and parts have a cost.
If you want to just change the cam?(no reason if you install a blower)or do a little extra,do as much as possible at one time to make things easier later.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 10:03 AM
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Ok, now we are getting somewhere! Acquire and install parts with the intention of installing a blower as the final goal. Put up with the slug it will be till the blower goes on. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want to do. If this is your DD and need to do it in increments that's ok. Otherwise park it and then build it as a blower engine with compression, cam, heads in mind that this is the final goal.
yes!! this is what i was trying to say. the truck will still drive and make some. power to drive around and sound nice. until i get the blower and then make a world of difference. now by u saying slug?? what exacly do you mean?? is it going to be that bad that i wont want to drive? my local shop finances my parts. so when i finish the debt i have with him. ill tell him about getting the blower. i don't really know what blower to go with yet i was thinking roots style. but i see it hot air. so might like a pro-charger better inner cooled or that old turbo i have thrown there. also inner cooled. cold air is better than hot air all day !!!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 10:21 AM
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By saying slug I mean that it will feel down on power with a 8-1 compression ratio and a blower cam ground around 225-230 @.050, .575 lift on 112 centers even, solid cam. Put the roots blower on it, twin 800's, clamp the heads with studs and set it up to run 1-1 and it will wake it up. Over drive it 10% and hang on. Just don't get greedy with the timing, over driving the blower and the throttle.
Did very close to this with a stock LS-6 that was tired, bored it .030 over with Manley flat tops. Put the thing in a 67 Malibu with an M22 crusher with a Dana 60 3.90 gears. My gawd did it ever run and keep you busy shifting!! Had to be very careful not to get greedy with RPM's. Went through springs and rockers all the time! One of my first big block builds and a blower.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:25 AM
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Gotta add that, that was with a used but still good 6-71 BDS blower and all the stuff to get it going.

Last edited by steeny; 03-10-2014 at 10:40 AM.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 10:36 AM
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It sounds like you're getting some great advice on this thread, and I can tell you that it's a "deja-vu" moment ... almost identical to my 454 build dreams and real-life experience.

Yup, I wanted the 8-71 blower sticking outta my hood too, (still sorta do. ) as an "upgrade path".

I started out with a good core, then had it built with .030 Forged Flat-tops, 781 (118+ cc) heads, Air Gap intake, Holley #3310 750CFM VS carb, Hedman truck headers, TH400, B&M Nitrous Holeshot 2400 stall convertor, 3.73:1 truck diff.

Cam #1, original to the fresh rebuild, had similar specs to a "blower cam" with a 224 duration on 114 centerline (IIRC) and it was LAZY picking up RPM.
We had break-in issues, and it wiped a lobe ... which probably contributed to the "lazy" as well. I thought it idled much too smoothly anyway.

So, faced with replacing the cam, I went overboard and installed cam#2, an XE284H, looking for a rougher idle ... which I got. It turned out to be pretty much "un-tunable" in fact. That's when I learned about DCR.

So OK, the intake was puking oil out the china wall, so I decided (with advice received here) to peel it off, replace the gaskets, and just use silicone on the rear china wall. When the intake came off, I found that I had other problems ... some NASTY Technicolor goo in the LH rear cooling port on the cylinder head. I suspected it was caustic soda, so I cleaned it up, re-assembled the engine, flushed the block and rad, adjusted the rockers, and fired it up.

The good news? No more oil leak.
The bad news? I must have made an error when adjusting the rockers, and wiped another cam lobe.

OK ... enough! I went out and bought ANOTHER flat-tappet cam (XE268H) as well as a set of closed-chambered (110cc) 396 heads, trying to get that compression up.

Having discussed flat-tappet cams at great length, I cannot bring myself to put it all back together again.

At this point in time, I have the short-block sitting in the frame under a blanket, A new cam and lifters in their un-opened boxes, 2 sets of heads on the bench ... and a strong desire to spend my cash on vacations rather than on this boat-anchor 454!

OK, seriously, I do plan to buy a ROLLER cam with a similar (performance street) profile XR282HR and put it together with the higher-compression heads. The blower thing may never happen, But I'll keep those 781 heads in case it does.

Hopefully you (and maybe others) can learn from my misfortune, and not make the same mistakes.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeny View Post
By saying slug I mean that it will feel down on power with a 8-1 compression ratio and a blower cam ground around 225-230 @.050, .575 lift on 112 centers even, solid cam. Put the roots blower on it, twin 800's, clamp the heads with studs and set it up to run 1-1 and it will wake it up. Over drive it 10% and hang on. Just don't get greedy with the timing, over driving the blower and the throttle.
Did very close to this with a stock LS-6 that was tired, bored it .030 over with Manley flat tops. Put the thing in a 67 Malibu with an M22 crusher with a Dana 60 3.90 gears. My gawd did it ever run and keep you busy shifting!! Had to be very careful not to get greedy with RPM's. Went through springs and rockers all the time! One of my first big block builds and a blower.
do you think id run in to clearance issues with the nx284h cam? with the 049 heads they 119 cc combustion chamber. the guy is giving me a hard time returning the cam and it was my mistake placing that order. hes a good friend of mine and i don't really want to bug much....
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