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-   -   OH poopy... Overheated and no oil...**** (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/oh-poopy-overheated-no-oil-100351.html)

Warrant 10-15-2006 06:57 PM

OH poopy... Overheated and no oil...****
 
So Im cruising down the road in my nova with a 350 that was installed about a month ago with about 100,000 on it thats been warmed over with exhaust, cam and intake. It has been working great since install, but I look down and I see temperature pushing 240-250* (and before I noticed this I had it spinning near 6000. "oh ****" :spank: :sweat: I race into a parking lot and shut her off, open the hood - over flow tank is full and boiling and squirting and spitting. I let her cool off and start her back up at about 220* It made a real bad grinding/knocking/and real bad squeaking sounds from what sounded like the back of the engine, oil pump/rear main bearing area and oil pressure was almost 0 at idle and like 20 at 2000. I race to a self car wash and spray the radiator with cold water for 5 minutes...temp went down to 180 (squeaking/knock noise still their) and oil pressure is back up alittle-I went straight home....cools down and i check oil its missing 2 quarts?!?! :spank: I checked just over 2 weeks ago and it was fine and it does not burn oil at all. So she cools off and I add 2 quarts. Start it, knock is their...oil pressure is back up but it is still lower than it was.

I pull the valve covers and everything looks fine, oil is right color, nothing bent, everything tight. I readjust the preload, and start her up. noise seems to be almost gone, but still you can almost hear it. I go around the block and open it up but i don't go past 3500rpm, on the rev back down tick tick squeak pop bang knock knock knock...with a sick squeaking noise...I pull into drive way and it doesn't sound too good, almost like a rod is flopping around in their.shut her off and here I am. Also it seemed that the starter was fighting to turn over...almost like no battery juice. It ran hotter and with less oil pressure than usual.

What did I do? What do I do? Spun bearing? Oil pump burned up? Best thing I can think is it overheated first and thinned the oil and vaporized it lol. OR somehow it eat 2 quarts of oil in 2 weeks, made more friction, grinded somthin up, and made it over heat. :spank: :sweat:

Can I remove the pan on a 72 nova with the engine still in? (not sure how much that would help) but I might be able to see whats up. :confused:

Depending on the replies I get Im going to pull the engine out tomorrow and take the pan and crank out. (hopefully it is spun bearing or something where i can just remove the crank have a regrind and new bearings and pop her back in?) and possibly its as simple as a fried oil pump? :spank: :smash: :boxing:

h0trod389 10-15-2006 07:18 PM

your fried alright... id bet a spun bearing!
my advice is to.....
.go to the store, and buy a case of beer!

i keep my oil pressure gauge right infront of me for 24/7 viewing

Warrant 10-15-2006 07:21 PM

lol they dont let me buy bear where i live(age)...plus I live in northeren utah HA! lol anyways Son of a ..... Is their hope to take the crank out or whatevers wrong and regrind and new bearings?

docvette 10-15-2006 07:56 PM

Doc here, :pimp:

Spun main or rod..

Your going to have to pull it OR drop the tranny to get it out anyway..so my advise is pull it and tear it fully down.. :sweat: :sweat:

Sudden loss of oil/pressure and coolant overheat is a prime candidate for a cracked block, head, or blown gaskets..

I'd have the block and heads tanked and inspected at the shop before going on..tossing a crank in there isn't going to guarantee you have fixed the problem..and 2 lower ends are Twice as much cost as one lower end ... :pain:

Plus...What kind of crap is floating around the gallery's just waiting to Score new bearings..? :sweat:

Besides, you want to look at the pistons, valves, Cam, (and bearings) , wrist pins and condition of the cylinder walls Before you decide what path to take.

That's my Nickel's Worth.. :thumbup:

Doc :pimp:

RPM 10-15-2006 08:02 PM

Most likely a spun rod bearing. If that is right the motor will have to come out and be completly rebuilt to do it right. What ever spun will have to be fixed also. If it was a rod bearing the rod will have be resized or replaced and like they said all the grit and grime will have to be hot tanked out.

Good luck and keep us posted...............

Warrant 10-15-2006 08:11 PM

Alright, I will pull it either tomorrow if it doesnt rain or tuesday and go from their.

Everything will come out...trans too since that never worked quit right :smash:

And speaking of trans...is their a chance that the trans/converter burnt up since Im not running a external cooler with a small 6 cyclinder radiator and a 2000 stall? :smash: :smash: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:

bonzipenguins 10-15-2006 08:43 PM

You know I almost had a similar problem with my first car.1972 C30.402bbc turbo 400,and 4.10 posi rear.One time a guy in a mustang was trying to pass me up.And I just hammered it.Revved it to 6000 grand in between gears.The mustang could'nt catch me.He was trying preety hard though.It started knocking at 5800rpm in last gear.So I let off and It still knocked and made a squieking noise.My temps were around 230.Believe it or not it was a stupid oil pump driveshaft.That caused it.You know one of those plastic end ones.I had another motor set aside that I rebuilt.a 350 bored .030 over.estimated 350 horse motor.And it would smoke my old big block.And it gets 6 more mpg.the bb got 12 if you were going 65.Anyways. I had everything checked.I had a worn bearing,causing the knock.And the squeek came from lose rockers.
When they checked it they said everything was alright still.I just saved the bb stuff.I ended up picking up a 454 block from another truck.I have an assembled long block 427.With a tko-600 tremec 5spd.It will go into a Nova sometime soon.

jimfulco 10-16-2006 10:41 PM

Like Doc said, if it's majorly damaged, you'll have to yank the whole thing anyway, but if you want to, you can pull the pan to check it out without pulling the engine or trans. You do have to turn the crank so the timing mark is in the 6:00 position so the counterweights won't interfere as much, and you have to remove the fan shroud and distributor cap so you can raise the engine up. Remove the motor mount through-bolts and jack the motor up until you can get a chunk of 2x4 between the mount and the frame bracket on each side. You should be able to work the pan around enough to get it out, although it's a bit of a tight squeeze. You may have to unbolt the oil pump before it will come all the way out. If the steering linkage gets in the way, just unbolt the idler arm from the frame and pull it down a bit.

Warrant 10-16-2006 11:01 PM

Well...I just took 3 hours and pulled it out today with the trans too. Havn't seperated the two yet but after a quick check of the fluids they look quite well nothing burnt...no metal shavings (yet) but im sure theirs a surprise waiting for me under their :sweat:

Warrant 10-17-2006 07:55 PM

Well Found the problem...Spud rod bearing :smash: crank is scored/scratched pretty bad and alot of material missing from the bearing...the rod cap looks ok and havn't looked at the other side of rod yet. Their were a few like 1/8th size of a penny metal/aluminum peices, and the grey paste that you get in the pan. Crap sent throughtout the engine looks minimal.

Is their any way I can just install all new bearings and have the crank ground and have it work? and if the rod is bad just get another from a different engine or resize it?

I need to fix my problem for as little cash as possible, any ideas?

Thanks

Centerline 10-17-2006 09:02 PM

Disassemble the block and have it cleaned. Then have your crank turned and all your rods checked. Install new bearings, rings, oil pump, timing chain, gaskets etc. then reassemble the engine. That will get you back on the road temporarily.

If you want reliable transportation..... Spend the money to do a complete rebuild on the engine, and heads. Also have the trans checked and at a minimum have the fluid flushed and the filter replaced. Then GET RID OF THAT 6 CYL RADIATOR! Install a V8 radiator and a trans cooler. If you're running a high stall converter you need a trans cooler since the high stall on the converter creates more heat and excessive heat will destroy your trans quicker than anything else.

Bottom line..... do it right or you'll be doing it again soon.

1982 SS 10-17-2006 10:02 PM

Hey, Warrant! what part of Utah you in? I'm in South Jordan, maybe not too far from you!

Anyways, go for the complete rebuild on that puppy. Do it right and do it once. If you need a good machine shop around here, Chets up in layton or Ogden somewhere and the other really good one is Clegg's down in Orem. I would go to Clegg's if you can.

At least change the fluid in that rans and put a trans cooler on it. With a little more than stock stall it makes a lot more heat. While you are at it get a radiator to support an 8. It's worth the piece of mind over the 6 cyl radiator, and cheap insurance so this doesn't happen again.

JohnyR17 10-17-2006 10:29 PM

Let me start by saying that I agree the RIGHT way to do it is to tear the motor apart and have it cleaned and inspected.

A complete rebuild will be expensive. If youre working on a tight budget, like I have many times before, Id go about it another way.

Id browse the local classified papers or talk to friends or neighbors and start looking for another 350. Theyre everywhere, rusty old pickups, '70s and some '80s passenger cars, grandpas barn.

Then Id get a re-ring kit, can be had for under $200 and usually includes rings, bearings, and gaskets. Buy a $30 hone, slap the rings and bearings in, get a NEW oil pump, carefully clean and inspect your old camshaft, replace the lifters, and bolt on the intake. Youll be down the road for around $400.

Warrant 10-17-2006 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centerline
Bottom line..... do it right or you'll be doing it again soon.

Got that...shoulda done it the first time lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1982 SS
Hey, Warrant! what part of Utah you in? I'm in South Jordan, maybe not too far from you!

Anyways, go for the complete rebuild on that puppy. Do it right and do it once. If you need a good machine shop around here, Chets up in layton or Ogden somewhere and the other really good one is Clegg's down in Orem. I would go to Clegg's if you can.

Hey! Im in Layton... Yea I know of Chets and Clegg's...Ive been told to avoid Chets!?!?

I may just hold off on the block now...I think Im......

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnyR17
Id browse the local classified papers or talk to friends or neighbors and start looking for another 350. Theyre everywhere, rusty old pickups, '70s and some '80s passenger cars, grandpas barn.

Ive been doing just that...I found a crate GM goodwrench 350 with 20,000 miles on it for about 650 that comes with everything... I think Ill be able to find a usable short block for less than 200 tho where I could swap my parts that I already have to it.

docvette 10-18-2006 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrant
Well Found the problem...Spud rod bearing :smash: crank is scored/scratched pretty bad and alot of material missing from the bearing...the rod cap looks OK and haven't looked at the other side of rod yet. Their were a few like 1/8th size of a penny metal/aluminum peices, and the grey paste that you get in the pan. Crap sent throughtout the engine looks minimal.

Is their any way I can just install all new bearings and have the crank ground and have it work? and if the rod is bad just get another from a different engine or resize it?

I need to fix my problem for as little cash as possible, any ideas?

Thanks

Doc here, :pimp:

If the oiling system was contaminated as you indicated..It should be totally pulled down and rebuilt right..

The crank is at least in need of turning ,If not replacement, the rod (s) checked for bend or stretch on the big ends..as well as studs, The oil pump needs cleaning & rebuilding , the lifters should be tossed and renewed, The lower sections of the bores inspected as well as the skirts for scoring, and the block needs to be tanked, then washed down and dried to be sure all the suspended metal is out of the engine..(that would be minimum to be safe) ..

Soooo..what does that leave? just pistons, rings , cam inspection and bearing inspection and or renew..and about $29.00 bucks more for gaskets than for the lower end..

I know you don't want to hear it..but it's cheaper to do it right again..when you think about "corner cutting" to save a buck.. :sweat: :sweat: Focus on this: Does your budget allow you to do this yet again after this? you'll arrive at the right answer.. :thumbup:


just my nickels worth..

Doc :pimp:


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