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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2005, 04:28 PM
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Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightrider
Introduced and banned! As I know, banned, because it was unstreetable...although I can mistake.
Banned because it beat the crap out of the competition.

They sold 500+ for the street, they were very driveable, and many still exist.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2005, 07:23 PM
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I'm refering to 346 vs. 330 cubes. or whatever the Lightning's 5.4 specs at.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2005, 05:22 PM
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Another advantage is less reciprocal motion. A bit of power is to be gained by eliminating the pushrods and rockers. Pushrods must be accelerated up repeatedly. Likewise the rockers pushed up. (The valve springs return them to position). With a mechanical OHC the cam acts directly on a shim and a cup over the valve, so the valve, cup, and shim are the only things bouncing up and down. The rest of the valve train just needs to be spun. Spinning stuff continously, all else being equal, takes less power than repeatedly bouncing them up against spring pressure. OHC is no perfect solution but does pretty well minimize the reciprocal stuff. And the less reciprocal stuff going on, the more potential for higher engine RPM's too.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2005, 01:03 PM
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Full electronic valve control is the next big step for internal combustion engines. I can see a pair of solenoids for every cylinder now! Then timing will be controlled totally by computer. Some european auto makers have been experimenting with this idea, I don't know about US makers. I know some of you will dread that day, but the aftermarket would soon have a controller where you literally upload whatever cam timing you wanted. Change the cam by plugging in a laptop or controller and uploading new specs!
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2005, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farna
Full electronic valve control is the next big step for internal combustion engines. I can see a pair of solenoids for every cylinder now! Then timing will be controlled totally by computer. Some european auto makers have been experimenting with this idea, I don't know about US makers. I know some of you will dread that day, but the aftermarket would soon have a controller where you literally upload whatever cam timing you wanted. Change the cam by plugging in a laptop or controller and uploading new specs!
Sounds like funeral music for our old OHV V8...
Or NOT?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2005, 09:16 PM
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Flashbacks to the good old days

KULTULZ, ya brought tears to my eyes with that pic of the 427 cammer. Even had the pleasure to see and hear one run onetime.
BTW, the 4 bbl version was rated at 615 HP if I remember correctly, and that was a weeeeeeeeeeee bit on the concervative side of things.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2005, 02:34 AM
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Full electronic valve control is a reality, in a way. Some guy designed and built a smallish twin cylinder engine with fully electric valve control. He even designed the circuitry to control it. He installed the engine in a radio-controlled model power boat and it certainly works. He said something about the limited speed and strength of the available solenoids being the limit of the engine size. Bigger solenoids were needed to control larger valves and as the solenoids got larger they got slower. Thus solenoids past a certain size couldn't respond fast enough above a certain RPM. Anyways, the guy is one smart SOB with some hellacious design and machining abilities. Details of how to build a duplicate engine with plans are in back issues of "Home Shop Machinist". I believe he was selling plans, or even completed circuit boards and software, for the controls. I have a copy of the issue with the engine on the cover somewhere if somebody wants to know more.
IIRC, his idea of duplicating a cam profile was to just build the computer into the control circuit. "Cam profiles" would change on the fly according to use, even throttle position, humidity, engine load, whatever you cared to have be an input variable. And of course you could have optimum presets in place for simplicity, "cruise", 1/4 mile. 1/8 mile, roadcourse, etc. If you found it more convenient to use a laptop, you could do that too. Really cool stuff.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2005, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyR
Really cool stuff.
How many moonshine bottles are required to you to invent a way to install this system on the old engine?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2005, 05:07 PM
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How many "moonshine" bottles packed with hundred dollar bills have you got?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2005, 05:19 PM
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selonoid operated valves

One problem is the fixed reaction time or limited flexibility of opening and closing selonoids. At idle a valve will open and close 300 times a minute at 600 RPM but will have to open and close 3000 times a minute at 6000 RPM. Im not an electronics or electrical engineer, but Im not familiar with any selonoids that operate that fast. There is also the issue that electric selonoids have been snown to not stand up very well to engine heat, or the heat they produce opening and closing at high rates of repitition, as many experiments with selonoid controlled valves has proven, at least in years past.
The biggest problems seem to have been the lack of flexibility in opening and closing speeds, as well as the heat problem. Maybe someday, someone will cure both problems.
In the meantime, since I can honestly call myself Brokeassed White trash, Ill stick with the mechanical setups for the time being.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2005, 05:20 PM
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selonoid operated valves

One problem is the fixed reaction time or limited flexibility of opening and closing selonoids. At idle a valve will open and close 300 times a minute at 600 RPM but will have to open and close 3000 times a minute at 6000 RPM. Im not an electronics or electrical engineer, but Im not familiar with any selonoids that operate that fast. There is also the issue that electric selonoids have been snown to not stand up very well to engine heat, or the heat they produce opening and closing at high rates of repitition, as many experiments with selonoid controlled valves has proven, at least in years past.
That being the case, maybe someday, someone will cure both problems.
In the meantime, since I can honestly call myself Brokeassed White trash, Ill stick with the mechanical setups for the time being, and leave the experimentation of the selonoid thing to the likes of IBM, ect.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2005, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyR
How many "moonshine" bottles packed with hundred dollar bills have you got?
Do you know how to get necessary thing from nothing?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2005, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Keith
One problem is the fixed reaction time or limited flexibility of opening and closing selonoids. At idle a valve will open and close 300 times a minute at 600 RPM but will have to open and close 3000 times a minute at 6000 RPM. Im not an electronics or electrical engineer, but Im not familiar with any selonoids that operate that fast. There is also the issue that electric selonoids have been snown to not stand up very well to engine heat, or the heat they produce opening and closing at high rates of repitition, as many experiments with selonoid controlled valves has proven, at least in years past.
That being the case, maybe someday, someone will cure both problems.
In the meantime, since I can honestly call myself Brokeassed White trash, Ill stick with the mechanical setups for the time being, and leave the experimentation of the selonoid thing to the likes of IBM, ect.

Hm. Well, let's wait further....
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2005, 08:17 PM
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Necessity is the ------------------

Necessity is the Mother of invention, so I guess when enough people think that having selonoid operated valve train, instead of what is actually about 7000 year old technology, then someone will come up with one that works, without the current problems. Selonoid valve function is not a new idea, there were several people that worked with it back in the 50's and 60's, and the sad thing is that selonoids today, havent progressed much beyond that point as far as effeciency, and durability.
Ya just got to love those genious's from way back when. Can you imagine how backward the world would be had it not been for the likes of Pythangaris, Archemedes, and those guys? Maybe we need a Leonardo Di Vinci of the HOT ROD world?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2005, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Keith
Necessity is the Mother of invention, so I guess when enough people think that having selonoid operated valve train, instead of what is actually about 7000 year old technology, then someone will come up with one that works, without the current problems. Selonoid valve function is not a new idea, there were several people that worked with it back in the 50's and 60's, and the sad thing is that selonoids today, havent progressed much beyond that point as far as effeciency, and durability.
Ya just got to love those genious's from way back when. Can you imagine how backward the world would be had it not been for the likes of Pythangaris, Archemedes, and those guys? Maybe we need a Leonardo Di Vinci of the HOT ROD world?
Why not?
BTW, we start talking about OHV vs. OHC, and came to camless engine...pretty amazing, and I think,not eventually.
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