Oil additives, hype or truth? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2003, 02:08 PM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 4,975
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 89 Times in 72 Posts
Post Oil additives, hype or truth?

Here's a neat little article with actual research, it's a little old but enjoy anyway.

<a href="http://www.car-nection.com/classic/chevy/snake.txt" target="_blank">Snake Oil.</a>

    Advertisement
__________________
Outlawed tunes from outlawed pipes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2003, 02:35 PM
2-manytoyzs's Avatar
Start those projects someday
 

Last journal entry: Divco - has been on the back burner
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Fresno
Age: 64
Posts: 557
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

I never recommended additives to customers when I was a tech. I never used them myself. We had a customer come in the shop all the time and he traded in his town car with 350,000 miles with only regular service. It was tired, but you cant argue with that kind of longevity. Excellent article Chuck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2003, 02:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

Here's another little fact. The Department of Justice has investigated most of the major maufacturers of these products and all have paid out significant penalities for their bogus advertising claims and have been required to modified their ad langauge-enough said!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2003, 07:03 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alabama
Posts: 611
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Post

I have tried many additives and have never found a single one to work. On the other hand when the synthetic oil product was first introduced I put a quart of regular oil and a quart of synthetic oil in the freezer and left it over night. I held the two quarts together took the tops off and turned them up side down. The synthetic oil easily pored out of the container while the regular oil had turned into jellow and very slowly came out in a blob. This is enough proof for me that in cold temperatures in winter, you would be much better off with the synthetic motor oil.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2003, 07:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 291
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

[quote]Originally posted by HotRodMan:
<strong>I have tried many additives and have never found a single one to work. On the other hand when the synthetic oil product was first introduced I put a quart of regular oil and a quart of synthetic oil in the freezer and left it over night. I held the two quarts together took the tops off and turned them up side down. The synthetic oil easily pored out of the container while the regular oil had turned into jellow and very slowly came out in a blob. This is enough proof for me that in cold temperatures in winter, you would be much better off with the synthetic motor oil.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Also, I found synthetic oil (Amsoil) will actually PUT OUT a small fire. It takes a really hot fire a few moments to "boil" the synth. before it will catch fire
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2003, 01:22 AM
Honorary Redneck
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: England
Posts: 194
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

That article you posted makes no mention of Molybdenum Disulphide (such as MolySlip), I work in industrial automation and there is real proof that MoS2 based products do increase the MTBF in industrial machinery, so in theory MolySlip should help in a car engine as well.

I agree that PTFE based products just cause sludge in your engine and block the oil filter, but I know several classic car restorers/engine builders who coat everything in MolySlip as they assemble their engines.

It's easy to get hold of here in the UK, not sure of anywhere that sells it stateside.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2003, 04:17 AM
1BAD80's Avatar
The Smell of Nitro in the morn
 
Last wiki edit: How to adjust valves Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mich
Posts: 2,423
Wiki Edits: 2

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Post

I agree with andybird that PTFE based products just cause sludge in your engine and block the oil filter, I know restorers/engine builders who coat everything in MolySlip or Motorcote as they assemble their engines. I use it on all the motors that I build. I belive its the only thing that helped my drag bike stay together. I also used it when I was a machine builder for a lube.
__________________
Luv the smell of NITRO in the morning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2003, 04:39 AM
farna's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: AMC V-8s Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Batesburg-Leesville, SC
Age: 52
Posts: 1,636
Wiki Edits: 14

Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Post

Even DuPont doesn't recommend MTBE (basically Teflon) for engine oil additives. I guess it would work ok if you had the bearings or something Teflon coated, not sure.

One additive that does work is Hi-Tach, also sold as Morey's or Lucas Oil Stabilizer. This is a petroleum based lubricant, but it's a bit slicker than regualr oil, and it's tacky, sort of like chaion saw bar oil. It sticks to internal parts and helps alleviate dry starts, and will also cushion gear impact. I run it in my 1980 GS100 motorcycle all the time, adding it about every other oil change now. The trans makes a little noise without it (engine and trans share 5 qts of oil). It can be run in an auto trans, but no more than 10%. They also claim it's good for rear axles and such straight, but I experienced a little noise running it like that. 50-50 worked well in a rear end, but I used the heavier gear oil blended with the Hi-Tach. I ran a quart in an auto trans for years that had a 12-13 qt capacity (a little less than 10% blend). Almost like a shift kit in a bottle! Definitely shifted firmer. Had to tear it down a couple years later due to a stuck TV cable, other than the rear drum burned up because of the TV cable, there was very little wear throughout. Had an engine with the rod caps installed backwards that I ran this stuff in since new. Ran it for about 18 months that way and it held stnadard oil pressure the whole time. Ran dual carbs and had one adjusted wrong, burned a hole in a piston (on a straight six). When I went to change the piston, I noticed the rod bearing had copper showing, after about 12K miles??!!! Checked another, it was the same, but mains had minimal wear. Checked rods closer, and caps were on backwards! That engine had psitons and rods that would only go in one way (offset dome on pistons). When the shop mounted the pistons, they put them on backwards. I got in a hurry assembling the engine (shop was supposed to, but 4 months later I picked everything up!) and didn't notice the rods -- assumed the shop would have done it right (if they were incompetent enough to let it sit for 3 motnhs after they promised an assembled short block though...). I just put the caps in the right order with the marks to the front as they are supposed to be. It was a little tight, but not so bad I thought to check everything again. I think the Hi-Tach helped that engine a lot, but can't be positive. Certainly didn't hurt!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2003, 05:12 AM
M&M CUSTOM's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Transmission identification
Last journal entry: 1988 Suburban, the project continues.
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northwest Pennsylvania.
Age: 43
Posts: 2,231
Wiki Edits: 9

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Exclamation

Wouldn't you think if was as good as the additive manufacturers said it was, the automobile manufacturers would put it in their vehicles from the factory?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2003, 05:48 AM
Honorary Redneck
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: England
Posts: 194
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

the benefits farna is seing is most likely from the thickness of the product, without knowing what's in it,

Don't you think that car manufacturers WANT your car to wear quicker so that you need to buy parts or a new car every 5 years?!?!
(The answer is YES)
They just don't want it to break in the first 3-5 years for warranty purposes, after that they want you to buy a new car!

Not wanting to seem like a paid employee of MolySlip, but...

The theory of MolySlip is that the Molybdenum Disulphide molecules arrange themselves into plates with a laminar structure in which each molybdenum atom is sandwiched between two sulphur atoms. The sulphur atoms are attracted to metal and therefore become plated or bonded on to each of the adjacent bearing surfaces. In between these two platings further layers of molecules form. The sulphur-to-metal bonding is very strong, but the sulphur-to-sulphur bonding between adjacent molecules is very weak.

Thus, there are two bearing surfaces, each protectively plated by a layer of Molybdenum Disulphide molecules with sliding or lubricating layers of molecules in between. In this way direct contact of metal-to-metal surfaces is prevented, friction is considerably reduced, with the consequent elimination of local heating, wear is inhibited and protection achieved even under extreme conditions of pressure and temperature.

This theory is a proven one in industrial machinery as I said above, with many of our customers swearing by Molyslip Atlantic Limited's products (there have been many side by side tests of the same machine from the same manufacturer being run with and without MolySlip, and the ones with always run significantly longer and show significantly less signs of wear)

In theory, this should also work in car engines / gear boxes / diffs etc. (each of which there are MolySlip products for) although I haven't seen results of any tests that definitively prove this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2003, 09:06 AM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 4,975
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 89 Times in 72 Posts
Post

I have an interesting story about Moly Slip;

I once had an 84 Bronco II that seemed to eat front wheel bearings, I lived almost a hundred miles out of town and all the trips made with the truck were highway miles with the truck having no time to warm up before hitting 60 mph on the highway. I had gone through 2 sets of front wheel bearings and could not figure out what was causing them to die so quickly. The truck was 4 wheel drive and the front wheel bearings were darn expensive and I had tried different greases and grades in an effort to prevent their quick demise. Nothing seemed to work and the worst thing was they would typically just seize, destroy the cage leaving me stranded. I tried lithium, synthetic, regular heavy grease and even a thick wax like paste designed for furnace lubrication. Nothing seemed to help.

Last I bought some Moly Slip in the hopes that it might solve the problem, well it didn't solve the problem but guess what. It didn't seize altogether either and I could still drive the truck even with the balls and races nearly destroyed. Upon disassembly the entire bearing was trashed but it would not seize like the other greases did.

Turns out the "Haynes" manual for the truck gave incorrect specs for preloading the bearing and actually had a page missing from the procedure...a mammoth printing error . I knew from experience with heavy machinery that the specs were suspect but you know how it is, you always try to follow the book!

Once I had the correct specs and preload procedure from a reliable Chilton/Helm manual I never had the problem again and I used synthetic grease because of the cold weather here.

I was surprised that the moly additive prevented seizure in such an extreme case of bearing abuse, I was sold after that.

[ March 17, 2003: Message edited by: 4 Jaw Chuck ]</p>
__________________
Outlawed tunes from outlawed pipes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2003, 09:14 AM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,530
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Post

my trucks first v-8 leaked oil and i put in some slick-50 when it first came out and had teflon in it. i ran it completely out of oil like three times and it lasted until the no.8 exhaust valve got broke due to no lead additive. i think the motor would have blown up without it. i understand they no longer have near as much teflon and instead of lasting forever you are spozed to put some in every other time you change your oil or so
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.