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Old 10-09-2004, 09:40 PM
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Oil additives.....was it zinc that was removed?

Hey all,

I remember reading something a while back about something being removed from oils recently that aided in lubrication especially in break in. I was thinking it was zinc and GM was suppose to have a replacement. Everyone I have asked looked at me like I was on crack and asking for a rock. Can someone remind me again what it was that changed?

Chris
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Old 10-09-2004, 10:10 PM
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Chris, I posted that. The zinc additive has been removed from most oils due to supposed damage to catalyst systems on modern cars.

With today's roller cams, it's generally unnecessary, but with the older engines you can use GM EOS, and I believe Valvoline racing oils still use Zinc in their formulations.

I would try to use it in flat tappet applications.
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:26 AM
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Chris. That rumor? has been floating around for some time now. I've yet to find any good info on the removal of zinc from engine oil.

Seems that most quotes? that I've found are very similar to what the "cam wizard" has to say, who ever he is.

Zinc and phosphorous are still used as anti-wear agents in oil. The levels may have decreased some over the years, but its still there in acceptable levels.

Amsoil has some really good info (and NO, i'm not trying to sell oil! LOL) on zinc and phosphorous at their site, comparing levels in most standard and race oils of all different brands.

zinc and phosphorous levels in oil.

After breaking in your new engine, you might consider Mobil 1 for your "running" oil. Good stuff and readily available.

Here is a quote from a Kendall Oil rep from an article in Motor Age magazine May, 2004.

Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) is the most commonly used anti-wear/anti-oxidant additive in motor oils. It is not the zinc, but rather the phosphorus in the ZDDP additive that has been shown to poison emission catalysts. In order to meet U.S. Environmental Protection Agency-mandated requirements for longer emissions systems durability on passenger cars, stricter limits are being placed on the amount of phosphorus permitted in passenger car motor oils.

Mark

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Old 10-10-2004, 07:13 AM
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Thanks for the info guys. I got some of the EOS, but it says not to use it as an oil additive??? Says it is only for an assembly lube, and the engine is already assembled with lubriplate grease.

Chris
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:18 AM
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I've got to break in my new motor soon, I was going to the use the 30 weight Pennzoil I have at the house, but if the zinc additive has been removed I'll buy Vavoline for it.


Killerformula told me to dump in two 8oz bottles of Crane break in lube for the break in. I just looked this stuff up on Summit's website.

"Crane Cams Super Lube Break-In Concentrates are anti-wear additives formulated with high concentrations of special zinc dithiophosphate to provide sustained protection against cam lobe and lifter scuffing and wear. These oil supplements are to be added to the engine oil for the initial break-in period after the installation of a new camshaft and lifters. "

Since the zinc additive is being removed from oils would it be a good idea to put a bottle of this in with every oil change?

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Old 10-10-2004, 11:16 AM
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I wouldn't worry about it Chris, it's not a "make or break" thing. They removed zinc additives because of excess wear issues on aluminum bearings like OHC journals etc. This issue first showed up with high rpm motorcycle engines back in the mid 80's.
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:22 PM
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Chuck what are OHC journals?
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:57 PM
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Cam Wizard

TechNote:

Under pressure from the major Detroit automakers, the engine oil manufacturers have removed the zinc additive from engine oil. The really bad news is that this increases camshaft and follower failure rates enormously during the break-in time. If you can find a zinc additive for engine oil, that helps greatly. GM's EOS break=in lube has been a faithful option, too. I have heard that the Valvoline racing oil that's labled "not for highway use" may still have the zinc in it. Napa has made a commitment to keep this oil in stock.

There have been no changes in camshaft or follower materials or heat treatment from ANY of us in the racing aftermarket. The increased failure rates are due to the missing zinc in addition to the usual assembly related problems we've been discussing the last thirty years or so. Keeping open spring pressures as low as possible is now more important than ever.


The "cam wizard" is the owner of Lazer Cams and he's a great guy and very knowledgeable. I'll have to take his information as probably being true. You can find this at www.lazercams.com
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:38 PM
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Just for the sake of conversation, if the zinc is all gone, why does it show up in almost all oils using standardized testing and electrospectragraph analysis? It is also tested for and measured when oil is sent in for testing on extended drain enterval engines.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghetto Jet
Chuck what are OHC journals?
OHC is for "over head cam".
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TurboS10
Thanks for the info guys. I got some of the EOS, but it says not to use it as an oil additive??? Says it is only for an assembly lube, and the engine is already assembled with lubriplate grease.

Chris
I think that's their legal dept talking. It's ok to use. I use it every time I break-in a motor.
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Old 10-11-2004, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghetto Jet
Chuck what are OHC journals?

I'm sure he means the bearing surfaces on the cam, or bearings in the head.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:07 PM
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My engine guy mentioned the zinc thing to me and said for break in I could use Rotella because diesels are exempt from the zinc reduction thing. After break in it's Mobile 1.
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