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Old 04-24-2013, 12:02 PM
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Oil Filtration

As promised, I am reporting back after attending a NAPA/Wix product information seminar last night.

Prior to attending, I have to admit that I was all about the "cut-aways" and "seeing is believing" and "synthetic media". I guess that is normal. As human beings we often associate appearance to quality ... that's why MFR's spend mega-bux on graphics and packaging.

So yeah, what you can actually SEE is still important in determining quality, IMO, but there is also a lot that you can't see with the naked eye.

The biggest thing I learned last night is "suitability to purpose".
Choosing the correct product depends a LOT of how and where the vehicle is driven, and how that affects oil degradation.
Obviously it affects (or should affect) your choices in lubrication as well.

Following MFR recommendations on type, weight, chemistry, and drain intervals is extremely important. I beleive that the vast majority of vehicles driven in this area should follow the "severe service" maintenance schedule.

Here's where it gets interesting.
Premium oil filters (i.e. NAPA Platinum) with synthetic media do not do as good a job at removing DIRT as the NAPA Gold series! They do excel at removing products associated with synthetic oil degradation as long as they are operated in a clean (pavement driven only) environment!

The other very import aspect in regards to drain intervals is TIME. Some of the vehicles on the road (mine included) take a significant amount of time to accrue the mileage guideline. My 1998 GTP has roughly 225,000 KM (140,000 miles) on the clock ... which equates to 15,000 KM / yr average. I change oil every 5,000 km (3,000 miles) mostly because it's easy to remember. 3 changes per year is probably pushing it ... should probaly do it every 3 months, especially in the crazy climate of ours and with mostly short trips.

With that kind of usage in mind, I don't think that synthetic oil / oil filters are for me. IF I were to do oil changes every 3 months, I might be comfortable with using a "standard" quality (i.e. NAPA Silver) oil filter.

However ... the old cutaway thing comes back into play, at least for me. The other consideration is the price difference. If I'm changing oil 3 or 4 times per year, and the difference is $3.00 per filter ... you can bet that I'll be screwing on the GOLD filter.

Here is the info on the cutaways that I've managed to find, including one from Motorcraft.

My personal preference is to have the (silicone) ADBV at the base rather than the dome, and to have an actual steel coiled spring rather than a "tension plate".


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Last edited by 66GMC; 04-24-2013 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Added Motorcraft vs Fram cutaway pic
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:31 PM
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The conclusion to recommend Wix filters is based on a independent study published in the trades.That and practical use over the yrs by us.If you don't take that advise,nothing more for me to do in this thread.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:20 PM
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No argument from me Gary1 ... I love NAPA/Wix filters, which is all I have used since about 1992.

You mention an "independent study published in the trades" ... can you possibly recall exactly where you may have seen it published?
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:29 PM
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I'll try to find it again.Bookmark file is getting huge.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:42 PM
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Anything but a Fram filter will work though with my Ford engines, tend to use Motorcraft/Purolator/WIX and in that order. (I have to say that the WIX brand does bring bad memories as I was once married for a very short time in the '60's to that company's CFO daughter)
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Irelands child View Post
Anything but a Fram filter will work though with my Ford engines, tend to use Motorcraft/Purolator/WIX and in that order. (I have to say that the WIX brand does bring bad memories as I was once married for a very short time in the '60's to that company's CFO daughter)

Married in the 60's?

I guess that's why your posts have wisdom beyond a 30 something.LOL.


I have to admit that in my youth I was all about saving a buck. It took a little time before I realized what the value of insurance is. Maybe that's why so many younger people aren't concerned about having it. But once I realized the value of insurance, the oil filter thing became a no brainer! Wix or NapaGold is for me.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:19 PM
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Married in the 60's?



I was ver-r-r-r-r-y young (and really dumb)


NAPA and their numbering system for WIX filters was an AH HA not too long back when I was looking for a substitute for a Motorcraft FL300 for my '31. The one cross referenced, a 51068/1068 is still too long but the WIX 51311 is shorter or the 51335 a lot shorter(NAPA 1311 or 1335) and will work with the 3/4-16 thread
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:54 PM
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I was ver-r-r-r-r-y young (and really dumb)


NAPA and their numbering system for WIX filters was an AH HA not too long back when I was looking for a substitute for a Motorcraft FL300 for my '31. The one cross referenced, a 51068/1068 is still too long but the WIX 51311 is shorter or the 51335 a lot shorter(NAPA 1311 or 1335) and will work with the 3/4-16 thread
You have to be careful with that too, Dave.

Here's an example:

I can't recall which vehicle it was, (Honda?) but it called for a 1356 filter for several years, and then they went to a 7356, which was quite a bit more money. If you look at the physical attributes (length, dia, gasket dimensions) ... they're all identical.

(see attached PDF, and yes, I did sequence the stats in the same order for ease of comparison)

BUT on the newer models, there is a hex nut on the oil outlet that protrudes up approx 1/4". The 1356 has a convex flange, whereas the 7356 has a flat flange.

As you can imagine,if you were to screw on the 1356, it would likely bottom out on the threads before completely compressing the gasket.
Bigtime leakage potential.

Yup, Honda. Obviously these guys missed the difference, and made up their own version of the truth.

Correct Napa Gold Part Number? - 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum

NAPA oil filters [Archive] - Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1356 vs 7356.pdf (129.2 KB, 36 views)
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:24 AM
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Thank you for your interest in this issue
My concern in this is that you got the info from wix and they tend to be bias about their own products.

We had Exxon-Mobil oil company representatives tell us about oils and it was pretty much based on their opinions how mobil is better than any other oil.

I have standard wix filter and speed shop has wix racing filters for sale, i will have to buy some fram filters too and cut them open to see what is inside of them. i`ll get back to this after some cutting.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:52 AM
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my question is, IS the "others"(purolator/fram/motorcrap/etc) really any different..
I mean. look there are millions of cars running fram or a "shop jobber special" filter, cars today have a oil change interval of 5-10 miles, yet these engine go 2-3 hundred thousand miles.. without an "oil issue" other than leaks..
are the ones everyone likes to point to(fram) really that bad.. the case gets even weaker as guys like us will change the oil at 3-3500 miles if it needs it or not..
I know fram gets trashed because of a cardboard end cap.. but really, the filter media is nothing more than golifide paper ..
I may be way off base, but I sold my 89 grand mark with 460 thousand miles on it.. with 175 psi in all 8 and no oil issues, what to guess what filter it saw all those 460000?? fram.. and purolator whatever was on sale..
now I sold that car in 2003, it still running around town..
my 2004 chevy z-71 and '99 grand mark both got the same brand filters and no issues and the z71 was 140000 when I traded it. and 160000 when I gave it to my mother in 2006 and my sister still drives it..
so IS the so called bad filters. really bad??
or is it all marketing hype..
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 66GMC View Post
You have to be careful with that too, Dave.

I try to be very careful if I use an 'alternates' of my choosing as filters have other considerations like gasket size (thickness and diameter) plus burst strength, bypass setting(which in the case of the 1311 being used, a bit too high, but I change oil every year at the end of the season)) and micron ratings to consider. Then there is capacity vs the OEM's designated size - which I probably lost 50% vs the original FL1A. The FL 300 is an alternate and is used on some Ford engines, but without making a 40 or so mile round trip, couldn't find that part so went to one of my local NAPA stores. Their listed conversion p/n 1068, is about 3/4" longer then the FL300 and absolutely would not fit but the 1311 does. The gasket is the same, has a good micron rating and does snug down well. I'm guessing that the Honda problem you cited is one of their making, and I'm just using generalities, have found that for some reason, many of these off shore manufacturer's, usually using a metric thread, tend to make strange changes, and they will seldom give a reason - and on lots more parts then oil filters.

Now - my reasons for not using FRAM. It's a personal choice, not from Bobstheoilguy 'statistics' or forum, urban myth or 'unbiased' reviews. I was up until about 20 years ago, a confirmed FRAM user - until I got two, both from different sources that had boogered threads. Then there was the one that blew a seal - and 2-3 quarts of oil all down the underside of my p/u truck. Are they any good - sure they are and along with others made under different names by Rank (it was Allied Signal/Honeywell) or they would have disappeared as a company. I just choose to use the Motorcraft or WIX now.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:14 AM
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oil filters

I have used fram for years with no problems,cut every 1 open at change with no isues,after repairs have found the filter did ther job with catching minoe debree.
exception is on my truck f150 eco boost use ford filter so they have no outs if(touch wood) i have a warranty isue
Durring my working life with a cat dealer we always told customers use the cat filter at least till warrante is over. cliff
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoFinn View Post
Thank you for your interest in this issue
My concern in this is that you got the info from wix and they tend to be bias about their own products.

We had Exxon-Mobil oil company representatives tell us about oils and it was pretty much based on their opinions how mobil is better than any other oil.

I have standard wix filter and speed shop has wix racing filters for sale, i will have to buy some fram filters too and cut them open to see what is inside of them. i`ll get back to this after some cutting.
Actually, the speaker was a very professional person ... stated that he had no desire to call down ANYBODY else's product. He concentrated more on what WIX was doing to address fitration failure concerns on specific applications, regardless of whose brand of filter it was. 3.6 GM/Suzuki for one, which is inherently very hard on oil degradation. If you have one of those, you had better do your oil changes religiously at MFR recommended intervals.

He also went into some installation issues, but I don't think I want to "go there" with this audience.

All I'll say is ... if there's a peice of paper in the box, PLEASE take the time to read it. Follow the instructions on the can. Use a Sharpie marker to make sure that you actually do tighten them "x" amount of turns after gasket contacts the base.

In regards to the "Racing" filters ... I'll repeat the "suitability to purpose" statement.
WIX 51061R Chevrolet racing filter.

As you can see, it's all about GPH (28) and low restriction. Micron rating of 61 should catch all the bugs and low-flying airplanes.
I wouldn't recommend that you use it on a daily driver.

51061 for comparison ...
9-11 GPM, 21 micron
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
my question is, IS the "others"(purolator/fram/motorcrap/etc) really any different..
I mean. look there are millions of cars running fram or a "shop jobber special" filter, cars today have a oil change interval of 5-10 miles, yet these engine go 2-3 hundred thousand miles.. without an "oil issue" other than leaks..
are the ones everyone likes to point to(fram) really that bad.. the case gets even weaker as guys like us will change the oil at 3-3500 miles if it needs it or not..
I know fram gets trashed because of a cardboard end cap.. but really, the filter media is nothing more than golifide paper ..
I may be way off base, but I sold my 89 grand mark with 460 thousand miles on it.. with 175 psi in all 8 and no oil issues, what to guess what filter it saw all those 460000?? fram.. and purolator whatever was on sale..
now I sold that car in 2003, it still running around town..
my 2004 chevy z-71 and '99 grand mark both got the same brand filters and no issues and the z71 was 140000 when I traded it. and 160000 when I gave it to my mother in 2006 and my sister still drives it..
so IS the so called bad filters. really bad??
or is it all marketing hype..
I say go with whatever you feel comfortable with ... just know that if you exceed the mfr suggested OCI for conventional motor oil, that you risk putting that *standard* filter into by-pass mode, as that filter is very likely designed and engineered to *pass* (not exceed) OE specs.

And yes, there is more than one type of filter media.

Everyone knows that *dirt* is less of an issue since auto mfr's went to an enclosed (PCV) crankcase. Fuel injection has had a positive effect on dilution and soot contamination, and of course, there has been lot of improvement in lube formulation and additive packages.

Unfortunately, though, those additives still have an "expiry period" ... and the lubricant and anti-oxidation qualities begin to degrade over time.

Like it or not, there is also water condensation to contend with. In fact, any bulk oil container (i.e. lube shop, or even 50-gal drum) should have a dessicant filter on the tank inlet. For every gallon of oil dispensed, a gallon of air (containing moisture, possibly other contaminents) is drawn into the tank to replace it.

Last edited by 66GMC; 04-25-2013 at 12:11 PM. Reason: added another paragraph
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