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Old 09-04-2008, 08:25 AM
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Oil pressure issue and gears

Here goes: I have an '86 Buick Regal with a 307 engine that has 95,000 miles. The Choke/oil light is coming on as soon as the car is warmed up, goes out when accelerating, but comes back on when decelerating and at a stop unless i put it in nuetral. Engine is running real hot and starting to knock a little from under the valve cover( sounds like lifters). Seems like low oil pressure.

I pulled the oil pan to get the the oil pump and the oil pickup screen was clogged with plastic/nylon particles and a couple small pieces of metal, so that may be my low oil pressure issue but i figure i'll replace the oil pump since it's already off anyways. Oil pump gears look good, no scoring or broken anything. I believe the junk in the pickup is from the cam gear. So, i plan on tearing that down to see what the issue is and most likely replacing both the cam and crank gear along with the timing chain.

Also, on the #1 cylinder (driver side front) i can move the piston up and down by hand about 1/4" inch, everything else is tight. Rod bearing?

My plan so far is to replace the timing gear set, put in a new oil pump, and replace the rod bearing on the #1 piston. Anything else?


Here's the plastic junk i found in the oil pickup


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Old 09-04-2008, 09:35 AM
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If you have 1/4 inch movement at the rod bearing, you wouldn't have any oil pressure to speak of and a knock like the IRS was at your door. If it was a wrist pin, noise would be severe as well. You have the pan off, can't you see the #1 rod big end?

Those are nylon gear teeth you found. If you plan to keep that motor, don't use the nylon sets. You didn't find that bolt in there did you?
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68NovaSS
If you have 1/4 inch movement at the rod bearing, you wouldn't have any oil pressure to speak of and a knock like the IRS was at your door. If it was a wrist pin, noise would be severe as well. You have the pan off, can't you see the #1 rod big end?

Those are nylon gear teeth you found. If you plan to keep that motor, don't use the nylon sets. You didn't find that bolt in there did you?
Okay, it's actually about 1/8" of play now that i just measured it. I can literally move the piston up and down by hand and it seems the play is coming from where it connects to the crankshaft. No noise or knock when i last started the engine and let it idle for about 30 seconds, right before tearing into it. Yes, the oil pan is off. When you say #1 rod big end, what are you referring to?

As for the gear set, definatley won't be getting another nylon set. What bolt are you talking about? There was nothing in the oil pan or in the area behind the timing cover.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:08 AM
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I just see a bolt in the picture, my attempt at humor. By big end I mean the crank journal end. Rock the crank snout left and right, see it it's loose there. If not, it has to be the small end, wrist pin.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:35 AM
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LoL, that bolt is from the oil pump, just left it in the pic for size referrence. Yeah, it's loose right at the crank where the bottom part of the piston is connected to the crankshaft. So, in theory a new $10 rod bearing should fix the problem for now, right?

Any way the rod bearing issue could be related to the gear getting chewed up and clogging the oil pickup or am i just lucky i dropped the oil pan and happened to be poking around to see if anything was out of place?
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:54 AM
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With that much play in the connecting rod, and that low of oil pressure, I recommend checking the main bearings for scoring. Any bearing cap, rod or main, that looks black was starved for oil.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:58 AM
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With that much journal play count on some crank damage. I would never do it, but if the journal is 'smooth' scored and the babbit is only beat out of the bearing, measure it and put new bearings in, do all of the mains and rods.

Man, I'm going to take a beating for that one, he he, but like I said, I'd never do it, it's strictly back yard and don't bet you're bankroll it'll hold up. It probably starved the entire system of oil and you have excessive clearances throughout.
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:07 AM
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Oil pressure was low, but there was still some pressure as the light would go out as soon as i gave it gas or put it in nuetral. I babied the car home from a few miles away and once it was cooled down, i restarted it and had no oil light or noise. Just seems it would take more to consider the engine done for.

I didn't see any damage to anything, no chunks of metal or anything like that. So, replace all the rod bearings AND all the main bearings? I mean if that's the case then i'm leaning even more towards not doing anything with it and being stuck without a ride.

How can the bearing issue be related to everything else though?
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cashmoneyspeed
Here goes: I have an '86 Buick Regal with a 307 engine that has 95,000 miles. The Choke/oil light is coming on as soon as the car is warmed up, goes out when accelerating, but comes back on when decelerating and at a stop unless i put it in nuetral. Engine is running real hot and starting to knock a little from under the valve cover( sounds like lifters). Seems like low oil pressure.

I pulled the oil pan to get the the oil pump and the oil pickup screen was clogged with plastic/nylon particles and a couple small pieces of metal, so that may be my low oil pressure issue but i figure i'll replace the oil pump since it's already off anyways. Oil pump gears look good, no scoring or broken anything. I believe the junk in the pickup is from the cam gear. So, i plan on tearing that down to see what the issue is and most likely replacing both the cam and crank gear along with the timing chain.

Also, on the #1 cylinder (driver side front) i can move the piston up and down by hand about 1/4" inch, everything else is tight. Rod bearing?

My plan so far is to replace the timing gear set, put in a new oil pump, and replace the rod bearing on the #1 piston. Anything else?


Here's the plastic junk i found in the oil pickup

The cam gear is gone, sounds like the rod bearings and probably the crank journal are gone as well.

Anything else, yes, expect valves and pistons have met.

You need to start planning on a rebuild.




Bogie
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:11 PM
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the nylon pieces are off of the cam gear, if it hasn't already jumped it's about to...(done 1000s of them). as for the play in the rod bearing, the rod is going to be toast, the crank is going to be toast. with all the metal powder that has circulated throughout the engine, the engine is toast. sorry for the bad news, but you need to do a total rebuild. anything less is a band aid fix and will not last.

face the facts-->your engine has died of old age...you need to rebuild or replace it...
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
The cam gear is gone, sounds like the rod bearings are gone as well.

Anything else, yes, expect valves and pistons have met.




Bogie
Really? Even though i started it and it ran fine on Monday morning before i tore it apart, no noise and no oil light either. So you think there are bent valves then too? I know the #1 bearing is worn for sure, but the others look good and have no play in them.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techron
the nylon pieces are off of the cam gear, if it hasn't already jumped it's about to...(done 1000s of them). as for the play in the rod bearing, the rod is going to be toast, the crank is going to be toast. with all the metal powder that has circulated throughout the engine, the engine is toast. sorry for the bad news, but you need to do a total rebuild. anything less is a band aid fix and will not last.

face the facts-->your engine has died of old age...you need to rebuild or replace it...
Neither is an option right now, no money, no engine hoist, no engine stand, and no one to help me with it.

Cam hasnt' jumped yet. Say i put the new gear set in along with new rod bearings....why wouldn't that work just since there is no noise with it running when it's cold and no chunks of metal or anything like that in the pan.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:03 PM
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:08 PM
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Pull the rod cap off #1 and inspect. If the crank isnt scored, lucky you.
If I had it down that far, Id replace all the rod and main bearings.

But if money is tight, give your plan a shot. Be nice to it and it'll live for a while.

Youve really got nothing to lose.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:27 PM
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