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Old 12-02-2010, 04:17 PM
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Oil Pump Concerns

Seller just replaced and original oil pump with a high volume oil pump on a 1993 GT Mustang. The engine has never been into. He detected a slight ticking for 2 to 3 seconds when starting the car after sitting 2 weeks. He thinks I should go back to a regular oil pump instead of the high volume pump. You say what?

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Old 12-02-2010, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H137
Seller just replaced and original oil pump with a high volume oil pump on a 1993 GT Mustang. The engine has never been into. He detected a slight ticking for 2 to 3 seconds when starting the car after sitting 2 weeks. He thinks I should go back to a regular oil pump instead of the high volume pump. You say what?
The slight ticking after setting 2-3 weeks is a lifter or more leaking down when the spring of an open valve keeps constant high pressure on the lifter. This is a valving problem inside the lifter where there is a very small valve on the bottom of the plunger assembly that is responsible to maintain zero lash. They wear like anything else mechanical and they sometimes get a bit of trash that's circulating with the oil on their seat so they get leaky with age.

Certainly a high volume pump would 1) be overkill for such a problem and 2) unnecessary since oil pressure and volume in the engine has very little to do with this problem. Hydraulic lifters will function quite normally on very little oil supply as engine oil pressure aside from making oil available to the lifter has nothing to do with its positioning of the plunger, that is the function of the internal valve I've been talking about.

Being a used performance car I'd be concerned that the high volume pump is used to cover a bigger problem like worn or damaged bearings on the crankshaft be they mains or rods.

Bogie
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:14 PM
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a high volume oil pump in unnecessary on a stock or slightly moded engine. I agree that it was used to cover up another problem.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:07 PM
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high vol. oil pumps

I read all kinds of comments against hv pumps,they like stock pumps have a relief valve,once oil is warm they bypass excessive volume and pressure into the pan, so in my opinion and experience the only down side is cold weather starts. I see no down side to using them to supplement worn brgs etc,
they do offer a larger margin of supply with very little down side . a standard oil pump when in by pass dumps a large amount of oil re the bypass or realeaf valve. cliff
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:10 PM
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one data point

I have high volume oil pump.
When oil is cold my pressure indication is 40 psi from 1000 to 4000 rpm; I think the pressure relief is modulating pressure at 40 psi (according to gauge).
When oil is hot, pressure varies w/ rpm but is never greater than 40 psi based on gauge.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:49 AM
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A high volume pump does not necessarily mean it will operate at a higher pressure. The problem with using a high volume pump in a stock engine is that under certain conditions it could starve the engine for oil by pumping the oil out of the crankcase faster than it can drain down from the heads and lifter valley. As has been stated by a couple members, a high volume pump is not really necessary in a stock or mildly modified engine.

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Old 12-03-2010, 11:19 AM
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oil starvation

do not agree with hv putting to much oil in top end.if the relief valve is set at 40 psi the excess oil is recirculated in the pump or dumped into pan depending on specific design,the only time excess oil could wind up top is if there is excess leakage,worn pushrods lifters allowing to much bleed etc, another exception would be high per.engine but most builders would improve oil returns channels .with a standard pump these issue's would lead to low pressure as pump would only see relief at cold oil. this has bean my experience cliff
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff tate
if the relief valve is set at 40 psi...
I'm not arguing, but that's a big "if".

Most guys will go w/the 60 psi spring for a SBC. Then a sustained high speed run can literally fill the valve covers and lifter valley to the point of the oil pump pulling air under any sort of braking or steering input that would have the oil moving away from the pickup.

Granted, if such conditions were being planned for ahead of time, the right pressures, clearances, volume, oil pan design, etc. would all be accounted for. It's when these things aren't done that a HV/HP pump will get a guy into deep soup.

Obviously, keeping the pickup under oil during any and all conditions is a must- regardless of the pump used. This may require trap doors and such, possibly oil restriction (depending on application), windage trays and scrapers to control windage, smoothed and enlarged drain-backs designed to keep oil away from the counterweights as much as practical, etc.

Excessive bypass can also heat and aerate the oil, so in my experience I've found it better to use a standard volume pump on a street-driven performance engine, set to have 60 psi at operating temp and keep the oil clearances tighter than an all-out race engine might see.

This ain't the ONLY way to do it- just one (of how many?) that will work.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:13 PM
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oil pump

10lbs per thousand is plenty.15 at idle is perfectly safe.if its a high volume and high pressure its good for negative 15 hp in drag and returning oil windage.oh yeah iv seen it wipe the dist gear quick too.if the engine is extremely loose and bleeding then thats different.----billy
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:15 PM
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oil pump

oh yeah i forgot,listen real close to his ride,youl hear somethin.tell him the crank needs to come out.lol.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:02 PM
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In a high-pressure pump, the additional volume (typically 25%) will only leave the pump if there is enough clearance in the after-pump system. Unless the bearing clearances are way out-to-lunch, the oiling system sees no more oil than a normal pump will provide. Therefore, there is no need to fear "pumping the pan dry" unless the clearance are too much to start with.

The biggest downside to using a high-volume pump is the added drag that will rob some horsepower and can cause undue wear on the cam and distributor gears, as well as the thrust surface between the cam gear and block.

tom
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