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Old 09-29-2010, 11:34 PM
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Oil Pump Pick up Tube Install SBC...

Ok, I have a new pump and new pick up tube that I'm installing onto a 350 sbc. This motor is going to be used and abused and was wondering if there is a good way to secure the pick up to the pump. I just attempted to tack weld the pickup to the pump but no matter how you slice it, the temp is too hot for the pick up tube and too cold for the cast pump. Does anyone have any better ideas or am I over-worrying about this? I have been very anal about this motor due to all the precision I have put into it. Thanks in advance!

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Old 09-30-2010, 12:39 AM
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Hi,
I've always tacked them, but I suppose you could drill & pin it,
just don't braze it.
Rich
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:53 AM
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Ya, the tack thing didn't work so well in this case. I ground the weld all off and am starting over. I can't imagine I HAVE to do anything with it, but I would really like to just to be safe. I just think tack welding it is out.
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:36 AM
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Well you could make & fit a brace, that is, bolt one end of brace to the pump housing & tack or braze the other end to the pick-up tube.
Rich
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:16 AM
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hmm... you could be on to something there.
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:33 AM
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These bolt to Pump & clamp to Pickup tube>> http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...tModelId=12738
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballerokid
Ok, I have a new pump and new pick up tube that I'm installing onto a 350 sbc. This motor is going to be used and abused and was wondering if there is a good way to secure the pick up to the pump. I just attempted to tack weld the pickup to the pump but no matter how you slice it, the temp is too hot for the pick up tube and too cold for the cast pump. Does anyone have any better ideas or am I over-worrying about this? I have been very anal about this motor due to all the precision I have put into it. Thanks in advance!
It is often recommended to braze, spot weld, or use some form of bolt-on clamp sold for the purpose to help hold the pick up on. I've never had a problem installing the pick up w/Loctite #640 and the tool shown- the choice is yours. For that matter, I had done dozens before ever using Loctite, also w/o any failures.

The thing is, the pick up has to be new to properly press fit into the pump body. If you weld, you should remove the pressure bypass spring and piston. Some guys will disassemble the pump to weld on it- I feel this may invite warpage. But that should be checked for if any welding is done, apart or assembled, IMO.

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Old 09-30-2010, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballerokid
Ok, I have a new pump and new pick up tube that I'm installing onto a 350 sbc. This motor is going to be used and abused and was wondering if there is a good way to secure the pick up to the pump. I just attempted to tack weld the pickup to the pump but no matter how you slice it, the temp is too hot for the pick up tube and too cold for the cast pump. Does anyone have any better ideas or am I over-worrying about this? I have been very anal about this motor due to all the precision I have put into it. Thanks in advance!
Hopefully you removed the bypass valve's control spring before heating the casting. Otherwise you'll need to pick up a new one to put in there as the heat removes the spring's temper softening it. Also check for valve movement, castings usually have a lot of residual stress and heating them up lets them warp to relieve that stress.

My favorite solutions are either the use of a retention bracket or the purchase of a Melling pump that bolts the pickup tube on similar to what Ford does. Frankly I never, ever take a torch to an oil pump casting. Others do, I won't!

http://www.jegs.com/i/Melling/689/10552/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/Melling/689/10555/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/Melling/689/12559/10002/-1

Problemo solved without resorting to Mickey Mouse methods.

Bogie

PS; be sure to drill the bolt heads and run some safety wire thru them.

Last edited by oldbogie; 09-30-2010 at 01:45 PM. Reason: safety wire
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:21 PM
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Both pumps are said to have "25% longer" gears, one has 10% more volume and the other has 25% more volume than a stock pump. Less teeth?

I don't know about Disney characters , but the least preferred method for retention of the pick up- for ME- would be any of the "added afterwords bolt-on retainer" affairs (bolts to the cover AND bolts to the tube):



I don't weld/braze either- but there are many thousands of them in service as I type, so I'm sure it's not the kiss of death- as long as the relief spring and piston are removed. And replaced!

Milodon and Moroso make press-on tubes w/an additional bracket welded to it that's bolted down w/a cover bolt, works on press-on pick up-type oil pumps (the ones that don't cost $90-$100 for the pump and PU).
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:08 AM
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I appreciate all the good info here. I ordered the bolt on bracket and am going to give that a try. I'm also thinking I will pick up a new pump/pickup since I didn't disassemble the pump before tack welding. But I do want to point out I did just that, tack weld. It wasn't like I was running a bead all the way around it. When I was done, I did notice that the pump body was hot/warm. So to be safe since I've been so safe thus far, I will just purchase a new one. Eff it, lol.
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballerokid
I appreciate all the good info here. I ordered the bolt on bracket and am going to give that a try. I'm also thinking I will pick up a new pump/pickup since I didn't disassemble the pump before tack welding. But I do want to point out I did just that, tack weld. It wasn't like I was running a bead all the way around it. When I was done, I did notice that the pump body was hot/warm. So to be safe since I've been so safe thus far, I will just purchase a new one. Eff it, lol.
It will take a lot more heat than just a tack from a MIG to hurt any part of the pump, or the spring.

I pull the cover, remove spring and bypass valve, and braze a 3/16" long tack using a sharp acetylene flame and brass rod, only takes 15-20 seconds. Never have had one come off, or a pump pressure problem. Let air cool and reassemble

I've done them completely assembled with a TIG welder, where you can realy control the heat, hot quick tack and done in 5-7 seconds, no problems there either.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:32 AM
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You can weld it on. You need to know how to weld something thin to something thick. Remove the cover, the spring and bypass from the pump so you don't damage those. Turn your welder to an amperage that'll penetrate the pump casting. Start your weld on the casting next to the tube and let a puddle begin. Then move it to the pickup tube just for a split second and back to the casting. The key is to weave back and forth only slightly touching the pickup tube so you don't blow through it. You don't want to attack the casting and tube at the joint at the same time otherwise you'll blow through it.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:06 PM
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So there you have it:
  • Press on tube then weld- on an assembled or only a disassembled pump. Or don't weld, period.
  • Add-on clamp or not an add-on clamp.
  • Pressed on- w/ or w/o sleeve locker.
  • Pressed on tube w/brace welded to tube and bolted to body, or only bolt-on tube (no press).
  • Drill and pin it, other threads have brought up (and shot down) drilling/cotter pinning.
  • 5/8" or 3/4" tubes.
  • Safety wired cover bolts. Or not.

A total consensus...
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:44 PM
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It's not the cleanest tack welds but the pick up tube is not going anywhere.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:07 PM
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I never has a pick up tube come loose from tack welding it on.
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