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Old 06-02-2004, 02:20 PM
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Oil pumps HP or normal?

Quick Q-

I just watched Horsepower TV last weekend and they did a sweet buildup on a 460 some odd inch smallblock chevy! Thing put out 650 horse! They had it with 10.7:1 compression, roller everything and a extra capacity pan. 6500 R redline. With all that, they still went with a standard volume oil pump! They claimed that the High volume pumps aren't needed because chevy motors have great oiling already, and the HV pumps take more power to drive.

So when does one use a high volume oil pump?

K
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Old 06-02-2004, 02:29 PM
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Cant' answer that. I never have used one. Stock pumps, occasionally w/ a stronger relief spring is all I ever use.
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Old 06-02-2004, 02:35 PM
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I bought a high volume pump for my buildup, and now I'm thinking I'd rather have a stocker! THey did, however, send a quick change spring of some sort (not an oil pump expert here) and said that if you swapped that spring for the one that's in it, that it will work as a stock volume pump. If I change this spring out will it also reduce the amount of power it takes to turn the pump?

Thanks-

K
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Old 06-02-2004, 02:36 PM
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In the SBC, I have always used stock pumps all almost all of my builds. The only exceptions are those that will see more than 5500 rpms and will only be driven in warm weather. Then I recommend the Z-28 style high-pressure pump (Melling M55A or S/P 224-4146A). A high-volume pump is used when clearances are more than normal or when using a cross-drilled crank, something not normally used in the SBC.

tom

Last edited by machine shop tom; 06-02-2004 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:48 PM
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We recommend the the stock volume pumps with spring up grade for any street strip vehicle. Now circle track, thats different. .


chris
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by killerformula
I bought a high volume pump for my buildup, and now I'm thinking I'd rather have a stocker! THey did, however, send a quick change spring of some sort (not an oil pump expert here) and said that if you swapped that spring for the one that's in it, that it will work as a stock volume pump. If I change this spring out will it also reduce the amount of power it takes to turn the pump?

Thanks-

K
Sounds like that is what the manufacturers intended. Yes, a PD pump power usage is based on pressure and mass throughput. You can't do anything about throughput but reducing pressure will reduce power usage.
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:01 PM
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so you're saying my pump probably has heavier internals that hog a bit more power? I can change the spring to stock volume and it will reduce the power usage, but not to that of a stock pump, right?

K
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:05 PM
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I cant speak for every oil pump application but I bought a high volume for my buildup that put out somewhere around 25% more flow. It cam with a standard spring to put back in the pump if ypu wanted to reduce the flow back down to normal. I had to do this because from what I understand some engines cant build up enough pressure to really use the full extent of the pump, and mine didnt. So in the end I am left with a high volume pump flowing at the stock rate that cost me $20 extra.
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:32 PM
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An oil pump is a positive displacement pump. In simple terms, it puts out the same volume at a given speed, regardless of the pressure it is facing. It will put out this volume come hell, or high water, until there is a stalled motor or twisted off shaft. This isn't absolutely correct since as the pressure goes up, there is slight compressibility even in fluids like oil and water and there is a little more slippage past the rotors but in all practical respects we are talking fractions of a %. Thus double speed = double volume. A high volume pump likely has bigger internals thus puts our more volume than a stock pump at all speeds, nothing that you can do about that. However, the engine only needs "X" amount of oil at a given speed. Most stock pumps supply "X+" volume and have a bypass spring that prevents the pump from putting out "X+" at a higher pressure than necessary since the "+" volume is just blown back in the oil pan and the excess pressure is wasted. A high volume pump puts out "X++" volume and if your engine doesn't need the "++" then it is a real waste to generate the bigger volume at higher pressure that is again dumped out the bypass. A lower pressure spring at least reduces the pressure of the "X++" volume that is being supplied thus reducing power usage. Just pumping "++" extra oil costs power even if it is done at 0.0 pressure - remember from your physics classes moving mass around takes energy regardless of pressure.
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Old 06-02-2004, 07:09 PM
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Did anyone notice that they (HP tv) didnt use assembly lube on the main/rod bearings or cam. Or use an oil pan gaskets?

I know they preassembled it for tv and Im sure they had to re-assemble with lube and gaskets.
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Old 06-02-2004, 07:59 PM
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The spring does NOT have anything to do with the flow rate. It simply regulates the pressure at which the oiling system operates. The pump flow rate is determined by the gear length. The high-volume pump simply has longer gears than a stock pump. Because it moves more oil per revolution, it takes more power to be driven.

tom
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Old 06-03-2004, 12:23 AM
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Tom is right... just compare the pump body on a standard one and a HV one. You cant change the flow thru the pump. What you guys are talking like you have is... a HVHP pump. You can get rid of the H Pressure but it will then just bypass the motor. The pump still takes basically the same power. I have heard tho that using a HP spring can cause the bypass spring by the filter to remain open quite abit. This will allow unfiltered oil thru the engine, So HP can ruin your motor! The HV pump is used for a engine that has been machined to very loose tolerances for very high rpm racing etc. For a street driven car that is machines for good oil control the HV pump is a total waste.
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Old 06-03-2004, 07:03 AM
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I have always used standard oil pumps on street engines. Apparently the GM engineers got the oiling right on the SBC years ago when it was put together. Now on my turbo engine I used the high volume/pressure pump because it is a race application and has added oil capacity required by the turbo. Turns out it was a good thing because after it warms up oil pressure is not any too high. The turbo is about like having an open 3/16 line with little pressure at all.

Chris
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Old 06-03-2004, 07:20 AM
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tom is correct, the HV pump is a .250" longer then a standard. That is why you have 2 types of pickups.

Chris
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Old 06-03-2004, 08:41 AM
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I went through the same thought of running a HV oil pump. i welded the pickup to the pump and had the pan sealed, but after reading about the M55HV and problems associated with it I decieded to break it down and I installed a M55 w/ Mr.Gasket #26 Spring. I just clean the anti caviation area up with my grinder and removed some of the flash in the port of the oil pump. Yesterday I tack welded the tube back to the M55 w?#26 spring and added a little JB Weld around the rest of the tube and installed the pan. Go get a 13.99. M55 oil pump and $3.79 # 26 spring and be done with it....
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