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Ok, a few more stupid questions about this top.

33K views 174 replies 8 participants last post by  John long 
#1 ·
I see in the GM assembly manual these things called "fillers". Over at the Goodguys I was able to see down into this area on a car and it looked like there were some dense foam pads at this spot. Is that all these "Filler" amount to, sort of a pad where the tack ("trim") strip screws to the body?



Next, it shows this measurement for the rear bow. It's extremely clear, 17 and 5/8 inches from the inside of the rolled edge on the rear bow to the center of the next bow. This is perfectly clear, make a stick that goes here to hold it and done deal, put the rear curtain in. That's how I see it at least.



But then they give this very elaborate directions for making a stick that would go there and it's adjustable! Why the heck would it need to be adjustable if this measurement is so defined and clear?



Thanks, Brian
 
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#131 ·
The thought of cutting it gives me the shakes. I thought about it but damn that is scary. It would take some sort of sealant like urethane or something wouldn't it?


Brian
 
#132 ·
Brian, it looks great. ****** is 100% right with everything he told you. If it was me, I would take out the stitching and overlap the pieces until they are smooth, which might require a little cutting, and then staple it down, and yes, all the way across the rear bow. It will be stapled down by the wire-on too, so don't go crazy with the first row of staples.
 
#136 ·
tops

This top remindes ( don't we have spell check on here any more?) me of a car I did in the seventys. It was a 65 Buick Spec, painted a high metalic blue. I done the whole interior in blue tuck and roll blue metalflake. I also made the top out of blue metalflake. As gaudy as it sounds in blended together good.I told him that material doesn't stand up well to sunlite. He didn't care. He is gone and so is the car. He kept it inside mostly and polished everyday. I wonder how it looks today. I can't find a picture. As a side note this guy was born with no arms or legs, just stubs. He had legs but didn't like them. He could drive. Well he could do everything as he lived alone. He was a sign painter, done good work. It was interesting watching him roll his own cigs.
 
#137 ·
Thanks so much guys! Yes ******, I have a number of handicapped friends and it is amazing what they get done with a heck of a lot less than we do, I respect them so much.

Brian
 
#139 ·
Wow!

Hi Brian,

You've made HUGE progress there! If I can ever get my top to look even close to that, I'll be pleased. Congrats! :cool:

I gotta ask - did you have to take those rear trim sticks out and re-staple them A LOT? Mine has the single piece rear stick and I have had that sucker out probably 10 times. It is not easy to get out either! :eek: I am hoping that if I just keep trying, I'll eventually get it right - make up for lack of experience with sheer footwork... :)

My top looks right now like yours did a week or two ago, but I've got slightly different problems:


  1. I am not exactly sure where the sail panels should cross the rear window on each side. Is there a measurement out there for a 71 Chevelle that would help me out? Or is this just a "make it look right" kinda thing? The markings from my old curtain were off-center (more space on one side than the other), so I can't really use them.
  2. I have an annoying "lump" of fabric above the rear bow - it goes all the way across between the side seams, but isn't a big enough pocket to fit the whole rear bow into it. It just doesn't seem to go away.
I'll post some pictures for help (and plenty of laughs, I am sure :)) tomorrow or Friday - but I just wanted to make sure I told you - NICE JOB!


-Mark
 
#140 ·
I had the trim stick out 12-15 times I believe. One of the mistakes I made was making too many adjustments so I kinda lost where I was. I found that if I removed the trim stick and made one or two adjustments then put it back in only bolting it with the center bolt and the two end ones as in the drawing I could put it in and remove it so much easier. It really started jumping ahead when I did this, wham one side was done and I move to the other side and it was done lickity split, That area marked with the number 1 I found to be the where to start. Get that area right so way down in the corner and up edge of the top from that last bolt way in the corner up to the rear bow was nice, THAT was the most challenging. Then once that was done the side where it meets up with the quarter from the rear corner up to the quarter glass was a piece of cake. I was trying to do it all at once, I just couldn't. by breaking it down into sections it worked came along MUCH easier.




Then the wrinkles in that side came out by pulling the top forward on the sail panels to where it goes to the top iron and the rubber window seal holds it on. By pulling the top into place there, most of the wrinkles I had disappeared.

I went from this..


To this. with that simple pull on the top with my hand.



Now, getting it to stay in that place wasn't easy, getting that screw in there was a MUTHA. But i used a quality screw driver and large headed screw and stuck the screw on the driver so it would stay there while I was pulling with my left hand I was able to spear the vinyl with the screw and get it started in the hole.

I did strip out a few of the bolt holes holding the trim stick in, I moved up from a 1/4" to 5/16" and moved on with life. I am thinking if I were to do it over I would have put nut-serts in those holes and used regular bolts, that would have been sweet. But it all worked out.

Also, DO NOT use any bolts not a fraction of an inch longer than those that were there, the quarter panel is DANGEROUSLY close to that area and a little longer bolt could go out there and dent the quarter!

I also made little rubber washer/seals for the trim stick. The last time I installed it I sprayed trim adhesive on them and stuck them to the body before I installed the trim stick so those holes would be sealed from water.



I made them during a ball game. :D

Brian
 
#141 ·
Hi Brian,

I like the plan with using the ball game to take care of the tedious cutting and whatnot. :) By 71, they were using a single piece floating trim stick, so mine bolts in with only 2 bolts. Having said that, getting it in and out of the body is a #$@)! pain!

So I am attaching my progress... Please don't laugh too hard - it is slowly getting better. The trick you talked about with just focusing on one side first is definitely key to this process. Like you, I was constantly trying to do both sides at once and it was driving me nuts. Today I got the passenger's side setup correctly, I think, because it actually started to look like it was supposed to be there. :):)

Anyway, please have a look at the pics. You'll see the fabric "lump" that I was talking about. It wants to sit in front of the rear bow. I put some notes on the pictures.

I am almost tempted to clamp down the material to the front bow and see if I can just "stretch" the lump out... The rear valance vertical seams are already stretched, so I doubt it would go away.

1) Do you think the "lump" of fabric should be in front of or over top of the bow? Over top would be REALLY hard because there would be almost no top fabric at the front bow and I don't think the listing for the second one would be anywhere close to that second bow...

2) Do you think that lump will stretch out over time if I were to just staple it down?

Any help or ideas appreciated!
 

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#142 ·
I don't have enough experience to say much of anything but that sure looks like it needs to be tightened up at the header. You do have it attached to the header don't you? It looks like it's just laying on top of the irons without any attachment at all. I couldn't have made mine do that if I wanted!

Brian
 
#144 ·
It doesn't have the darts because it is a different top manufacturer, and a different year and model car. Yes, you need to stretch the top forward and that lump will go away completely. If you have it that good without stretching it forward yet, you are doing just fine.
 
#146 ·
Really??? You guys think it is looking ok? I think it still looks awful. :(

Brian - you are 100% right. I do not have it tacked to the front bow in the pictures. It is literally laying on top of the bows and I have some spring clamps holding the flaps that come in under the rear-most door weather stripping (the front edge of the sail panel).

I am going to try clamping to the header panel and pulling it forward. I want to see if I can get rid of those lumps. I'll put up more pics later.

One more question: Should I try pulling the entire top towards the rear of the car in an attempt to get the lumps to land on top of the rear bow??? There are some definite downsides (like the viewable window area would be covered more and more - leaving less than 11 inches of space in the end)...
 
#147 · (Edited)
So what you're saying is that this top is not really attached to anything except with spring clamps? You can do what you're doing with spring clamps forever and it will never look right. You have to anchor it to the trim sticks in the back corners to be able to pull any wrinkles out to the front.

Do you have the old top? Where were the holes in the rear sail panels that are attached to the trim sticks? Measure the old top and transfer those measurements to the new top with chalk only and start from there. The tops I buy are marked where the holes in the trim sticks go. That's where to start.
 
#149 ·
No, no... :) I've got a single piece trim stick (no bolt holes to cut). The top is stapled at the trim stick and clamped with those flaps on the very front of the sail panels. I haven't tried stapling it to the header bow yet.

Take a look at the attached and you'll see what I mean.

Brian, that's really a good comparison... It is a little like a drum - I just wish I knew how tight to make it...
 

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#148 ·
Picture getting bass drum and laying the skin over it and hold it on with clothes pins, that is what you have. There is no way not how anything will look right, the act of tightening it over the bows just like tightening that bass drum skin over the drum is what makes it work.

Brian
 
#150 ·
What make and model vehicle is this top going on?

You need to look at the old top to see where it was attached to the car and go from there. The top goes on from the back to the front, no matter what.
 
#151 ·
Hi Dan,

The car is a 1971 Chevelle. I have used the old top to get markings from, but it is not in the greatest shape. Plus, I don't think it was well-installed to begin with.

Here's my current progress - I decided to tighten the front bow up a bit with some spring clamps:


After that, here's the passenger's side:



Driver's side (you can see the lump of fabric that still hasn't gone away completely, circled):


A wrinkle I am pretty concerned about:



And my biggest concern - a strange GAP that shows up if I tighten the main top to the header bow (using spring clamps):


So I have two major questions at this point:

1) When you say the top has to be installed from back to front, does that mean I MUST staple through the top into the rear bow before proceeding to the header bow? I was hoping to staple the rear bow only once I am sure things are going to fit and line up correctly.

2) What do you think of that GAP I showed in the picture? It seems to be on both sides (equally) depending on how tight I make it. I think that when I tighten the front of the main top so much, the rear bow doesn't pull the curtain all the way forward and the gap grows... Would this eventually work itself out??? :confused:

Any ideas appreciated!

Thanks,
Mark
 

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#152 ·
top

I have a couple questions. Is your rear bow set corectly? It's hard to tell by pics but looks to me like it should be leaned ahead an inch or so. Are you sure the pads are in correct place? That one pics shows pad clear to bottom of rear bow. The bottom of pads are usually up 5 or 6 inches up from the end of rear bow. That gap is probably because the clamps are holding the top up a bit and not letting window pull tight. Put a few staples under where you have the clamps. Latch top down and see if window pulls tight if not tighten up pads. With a glass window the pads have to be very tight because they are heavy.
 
#153 ·
I have a couple questions. Is your rear bow set corectly? It's hard to tell by pics but looks to me like it should be leaned ahead an inch or so. Are you sure the pads are in correct place? That one pics shows pad clear to bottom of rear bow. The bottom of pads are usually up 5 or 6 inches up from the end of rear bow. That gap is probably because the clamps are holding the top up a bit and not letting window pull tight. Put a few staples under where you have the clamps. Latch top down and see if window pulls tight if not tighten up pads. With a glass window the pads have to be very tight because they are heavy.
Hi ****** - Funny you should mention that. I got started in this thread because I noticed that my rear bow was too far forward! :) After talking with Dan, though, I discovered that I am probably ok as the old top fit on this way and was pretty much the same overall size and measurements. According to the measurements, it is still a little bit farther forward than it should be, though the weight of the curtain did pull it back a little. Last time I measured, I was about 1/4" off towards the front.

I don't know what you mean by "shows pad clear to the bottom of the bow". I had the rear bow locked into place using the GM-style spacer sticks when I put the pads in place. They match up with the old pads in terms of where they lined up and I cut them off just rearward of the last bow. On the sides, they drop down part of the way, but not down the the belt line or anything.

I am attaching a couple of pictures of where the pads reach down on the sides so you can at least kinda see what I mean.

Thanks again! I really hope I can get this thing looking good! :sweat:
 

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#154 ·
You don't have the pads permanently installed either, do you?

I'll say it again. You can play with this until you're blue in the face with your spring clamps, but the pads need to be installed properly, and permanently, the rear bow height needs to be set permanently along with the rear curtain, and the rear of the top needs to be attached solidly to the trim stick before you can fit the top on the frame properly.
 
#156 · (Edited)
The pads are permanently installed! :) The rear bow height is set, but a little too far forward (like we discussed earlier). The rear curtain is fully stapled (lots of staples) to the rear bow.

What you are seeing there is from when I was test fitting the pads - it was the only pic I had to show ****** where the pads went to on the sides of the rear bow. I unfortunately didn't take pics of when I fully stapled the pads and clipped off the over-hang on both the front and rear bow. (No spring clamps! :D)

I have the rear trim stick completely stapled at this time - only the rear and front bows are un-stapled. I think it is working out, but I have to take some more pictures. I'll post them once I do. The only spring clamps left are holding the blankets to the outside of the car for protection of the paint!!! :D

Do I have to staple to the rear upper bow before I can staple the front bow? From my understanding I could get away with leaving the rear upper bow unstapled. :confused: I would want to leave it un-stapled over the rear bow ONLY until I can get the front bow situated and then I would staple the main top the rear bow as well.
 
#157 ·
Don't staple the top to the rear bow before you staple it to the front header. The last thing you do before installing the wire-on to the rear bow is staple the top to the rear bow. Only staple the top to the rear bow when you are satisfied the top is installed correctly.
 
#158 ·
That was one mistake that I made, and it was only one staple, almost screwed the whole thing up. I put one staple over the center of the rear window into the rear bow and then a couple on each side at the end of the bow. I did all my side rear top stuff and it was all looking so good and then went and snugged up the front at the header a little more (moved it forward about a quarter inch). It all looked good but I hadn't gotten to stapling the top to the bow or adding the wire-on. I went out to the garage and saw that the center staple had pulled thru the top! The hole was dangerously close to hanging off the front of the bow!!!!

Yesterday I put it out in the sun and left if for a while then pulled the top back stapling it all the way across. It seems to be fine as the top clamps down nice and it isn't stretching it too much.

That was almost a serious screwup!

I know one thing, I looked at maybe 35 or more similar make model and year convertible tops yesterday at the Goodguys and my top is average among them. It is not one of the best by any means, neither is the rest of the car! And it is most certainly not one of the worse, as is the rest of the car. :D

Honestly, that made me feel a lot better. One thing I am totally convinced of, if the top is being used it WILL have some funkies that is for sure. So my answer to my few wrinkles, put the top up and down often and then even if they were there from the beginning they will be justified. :)

But I saw some REAL funky tops like huge folded messes at the edge of the header. I was wondering how I was going to pull this off because there is so much material there, a LOT of cars had this huge chunk of material folded all under and it looked like CRAP. I know I will do better than that. Also, another thing that cracked me up was the amount of cars with the wire-on all crooked! It looked like a piece of rope thrown over the roof! Yeah, I am feeling a lot better about what I have done. I have thought how if I were to do another one next week how it would be soooo much better and easier. Then I come to my senses in that I will likely NEVER do another one. :D

Brian
 
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