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Old 11-14-2004, 11:20 AM
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OK, I am screwed up....

Working on an 87 Jeep w/ 258.... prev. owner did some non-standard rewiring (incl. bypassing two fusible links in power dist.) and took ignition back to points.

I got an FSM and wiring diagram and took the power distribution back to stock, but can't get the ignition right. Was getting no spark... on advice of an old mechanic I know, put a jumper in form starter side of solenoid the coil. Now it gives me a weak spark.... but also battery voltage at the coil with the switch off! That don't seem right.....

Any thoughts?

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Old 11-15-2004, 06:41 AM
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Secondary ignition

Doc here:

Try that wire on the "I" terminal of the solenoid instead of the "S" or the big bolt, and see what ya get...

If you bypassed it to the big main bolt, you will have coil power all the time and will burn the coil up not to mention, It won't shut off with the key.

Is this just a starting issue? or will it not run at all (secondary ignition Bypassed to straight 12 volts)?

You might try the resistor (or resistor wire) If so equipped..the coil will show 6 to 9 volts at the - side, key on if it's doing it's job.

If it was bypassed for a long time (and required one) The Coil may be bad.

Doc
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Old 11-15-2004, 08:00 PM
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Well - I have probably burned up the coil as it was bypassed like this for a week or so, we were working on it when it got dark on Sunday and it didn't get undone....

However I was getting no spark on the I terminal, one source suggested replace the starter solenoid which I did, no improvement....

Can't find any sign of a resistor wire, am I missing something? This engine was back-fitted from transistorized to points, would a resistor wire still be required?
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Old 11-16-2004, 02:32 AM
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Resistor

Doc here:

see next post...forgot attachment! ooops!

Doc
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Old 11-16-2004, 02:34 AM
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Re: Resistor

Quote:
Originally posted by docvette
Doc here:

Yes, IF you are running a "Stock" type system...

IF it's an after-market like MSD or other, some say no..some say yes, in which case you would have to refer to the manufacture of the system.

If you left the coil powered up for like a week and the points were closed chances are pretty good that the coil has gone on to the happy hunting ground...along with the points...Replace them both.

The "I" terminal will only provide 12 volts to the coil during "Start" functions of the ignition switch, whereas you may have noticed the rest of the system goes off during a start cycle...

(dash/idiot lights, radio etc.. blink out )

until the key is returned to the "run" position..If you have 12 volts to the coil from the "I" terminal in start
(you need to measure it while someone holds the key in start)

that will allow the car to start...

then you need the other wire from the key switch to maintain run in the "run" position on the key switch.

The Photo shows a typical early GM type system, It sounds similar to yours..just to give you an idea...

Doc
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Old 11-16-2004, 06:08 PM
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Thanks, Doc, this looks like my Saturday.... but one more thing, what should I use for a resistor wire? A ballast resistor and a regular 14 gauge wire? or a heavier wire? What am i missing here?

and thanks again, really....
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Old 11-16-2004, 06:21 PM
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ballast resistor

Doc here:

Yeah, that should be fine...remember to mount the resistor where it wont melt stuff (like your Elbow as you work on the engine!)..it will get hot!

Doc
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:32 PM
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Chapter 2 in electrical flog...

Over the last two days we went completely through the engine harness, took out all the superfluous wiring to the long-missing computer and other inoperable engine controls. Found a couple things that did not look right and fixed them, but I think the basic start and run circuits were OK.. we double checked them and the charge circuits too.

So, with the key out and the negative battery terminal disconnected, I am getting 7 volts to the coil.....

Only thing I can figgure is whne we rewired the gauges, something that we thought was connected properly is somehow grounding hte circuit when it should not... I guess I check the IP next.....

With everything connected I am getting crank and spark altough it did not catch........ so I am making progress, but we can't have voltage in the ignition on "off" can we?
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Old 11-21-2004, 08:53 PM
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Hows that again?

Quote:
Originally posted by pmeisel
O

So, with the key out and the negative battery terminal disconnected, I am getting 7 volts to the coil.....

7 volts with the battery disconnected? How is that possible?
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Old 11-22-2004, 04:06 AM
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The Magic Electron...

Doc here

You are Seeing 7 volts at the Ignition with the Battery disconnected???????? Totally

Osmosis...must be... LOL

Check your meter, make sure you DIDN"T leave it set for Ohms scale when you tested the circuit....Cuz unless you have more than one battery in the car, or ONE BIG discharge cap on the computer..There should Be zero Volts EVERYWHERE!

As far as the Ignition getting power all the time (and I assume not shutting off with the key?) You have (most likely) The secondary ignition wired incorrectly...

Pull both wires from the 12 volts side of the coil..pri/sec and measure both, I think you'll find the secondary wire hot at all times.

Best thing to do is, Run a new wire from the Solenoid "I" Terminal to the coil..unless the solenoid is defective, that should cure the problem.

If it's the other wire that is hot in off..your not on the key switch, but some other source of unswitched power. Locate the wire coming from the switch and hook it there.

That Should Cure the problem.

Doc
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Old 11-22-2004, 07:49 PM
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Got to thinking last night... we did some gauge rewiring in the IP....

we were picking up what we thought was switched power...

and we also ran some new wires for senders and grounds....

Bet we screwed one up......

That's OK , I really didn't want to watch any football this weekend either.....

I'll be back this weekend with an update on the slowest electrical learning curve ever. Thanks Doc.
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Old 11-29-2004, 05:42 PM
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Found several things wrong.

A jumper we put in from the starter terminal to the coil for test purposes that I thought we took out was still there....

And we had an extra wire running to the S terminal of the solenoid and thus to the coil -- it was same color as one that belonged there, I had my sons checking them but I never realized there were TWO -- it was running from the IP harness and getting power from the gauge circuit, probably from the gauge light circuit.

While I was doing this I removed all extraneous computer related wiring.

I now have crank, spark, and terrible run-on -- I think the timing is off. But I ran out of time there.....

Thanks for the help and education.
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