I'm looking for some 70s era 327 setups for a 1974 S&W speed shop RED.
This car was found in a garage in Eastern PA. and was built for Stokes Hellerman by S&W speed shop, now S&W racecars. Stokes was a salesman for S&W back in the day. This car is 90% original right down to the paint(Jim the painter).
The car has less then 50 passes on it, I re-did the cage last summer and had it certified to 7.50 (NHRA) also swapped out the 2 speed Lenco for a shorty glide from bad habit racing transmissions (5500stall), changed the hand brake to a foot brake and rebuilt the Hurst Airhart 4 piston disc brakes. The car saw limited use in comp. eliminator class with a 60 over 327 with a TR1X tunnel ram with 2 660s
My question is how did they build these high revving engines in the 70s?
Please don't tell me to change the rear and drop in a 383. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=122999&id=1234147519
The blocks were often sleeved and poured, alky was also often used. For gasoline, I'd stick w/full coolant flow and non-poured 4" bore size block. Pre-350 327 blocks looked different in the front than a 350 block, so if originality is important to you, seek out an older block if you use an OEM casting.
Cranks were sometimes OEM in lesser builds, used by the "little guys". Aftermarket aluminum rods became the norm, aftermarket cranks too- but a bit less often.
Bigger teams used whatever was at the cutting edge at the time, so depending on the exact time frame "snap-shot" you're trying to recreate will matter as far as what became available when, if you follow me.
Obviously smaller, less well funded teams made do w/the best they could come up with at any given moment, and parts selection was much more dependant on what was available used/cheap than the newest, best-est.
Bow tie heads were used once they became available. Pre-BT, the heads were fulies w/max effort porting. CR were up 12:1-plus.
Cams were often solid flat tappet, w/monster duration and relatively mild lift. The lift progressively increased as the valve springs improved.
Small cap distributors were used, often w/dual points, sometimes w/transistorized ignitions. I'd opt for a conversion set up that fits under the small cap- an HEI won't clear the intake, anyway.
It depends on how fast you want to go, how much you want to spend, how
much you are willing to veer from period specific and reliability?
Building a 331 that looks and performs much like they did in the 70 is
relatively easy to do. You'll need a small journal block and crank, with good
main caps installed in the block. Light weight rods and pistons (14:1 or higher).
You should be able to find a good set of GM performance heads from that
time frame. A for a camshaft, there is no good reason to use the old
technology, newer grinds are far advanced.
If you are serious about going fast, consider a modern high RPM foundation
like the comp eliminator cars run these days, with the looks of the 70s
version. An aftermarket block with a 4.125" bore, a de-stroked crank and
the current GM performance heads professionally ported for the application
and a good solid roller cam. You will need to loosen up the converter and
plan on spinning up to 9000 RPM. These make plenty of power and have a
unique sound in the upper part of the RPM range.
Get a copy of Bill Jenkins book how to build the chevrolet racing engine it tells in detail what was state of the art in 76.It included stock forged crank(small journal) in a 4 bolt main 350 block with bearing spacers.Probably not really needed but splaying a 2 bolt small journal block should work fine.Roller cam, 292 turbo heads fully ported(492,or 461 heads are a good subsitute if ya can't find turbo's tho would be down a little on power) the tunnel ram and carb setup you already have. Aluminum rods were used and msd 7 ignition system sometimes point triggered sometimes electronic.This was at the beginning of electronic ignitions.Expect 550 to 600 horsepower on gas. If the heads are correctly done to 70's pro stock specs will hit close to 700 and turn over 8500 rpm.
well ,,, the old mouse motors .. back in the day .. it was possible to out run a b/b rat motor ,, but you had to be creative.. re-sleeve it ,, take welding rod and spider web it threw water jacket ,, then bore it paper thin ...after 5-10 runs its junk .. don't think that's what your after.. since their isn't too many left .. i.m sure there is a lot of better ways to do it now days..but that was the most creative way i saw.. guy who built that motor made over 6 grand in 1968-69.. in one race ...
you could build it the way they did with old components, OR you could build it with new components to sound and look the way it did (which would last longer and cost less). My choice would be for the later.
My experience isn't by choice can't afford all the latest but a 355 with ported turbo heads, 13 to 1 compression, with a 260@.050I, 268@.050 solid cam sure is fun to play with.
I haven't run my 331 in years, it never was what you are interested in. Mine
is a mild street strip version, 7500 RPM max.
There is a local racer that ran comp eliminator in the 70s, he moved over to
super comp with a 331 in a RED in the early 80's. His is much like barnym17
posted earlier, large journal four bolt main 4" bore block with bearing spacers
and a production small journal 327 crank. He ran aftermarket heads, single
four barrel intake and a big roller cam, lots of RPM. He was very competitive
in super comp running 8.90s on the throttle stop.
These days when the rules and budget allow the NHRA racers build their
small cubic inch chevys based on a 4.125" bore. Lots of RPM and power,
fun to watch.
Byron Latino SS/BS 8.928 -1.022 under the 9.95 index
I went with a 68 327 (sj) short block prepped and built by Tim Zepp www.timzeppengines.com, World 200cc iron heads angle milled and ported with 2.05 int
Comp cams 630 630 roller, no rockers or tappets yet, thinking about a shaft setup
Just an update
After 11 months and alot of favors the 331 is complete all but pushrods, will post some pictures. One more question, should I run a dipstick
My RED had a 69 DZ 302 block taken .030 over!!!! A factory, but seriously reworked, large journal 327 crank, aluminum rods, 13.4:1 pistons, 292 Turbo factory heads, full roller cam and setup, and ran alcohol. The block was fully studded, even the oil pump bolt with it's odd shape. When I got the car it was running Enderlie Injection, adjustable headers, and must have had a Blue High Temp RTV sponsorship because the stuff was used everywhere. This was the engine I found an actual dentists dental dam in the home made dragster oil pan. I rebuilt everything, and went with a single 4-barrel induction for Super Comp. The car had been running 8 second flat E.T.'s, and the chassis was'nt plumb; I straightened that out. I qot tired of the weekly NHRA rule changes and SFI requirements, and got back into tri-five Chevrolets. I still have the firesuit, it's all that's left of that venture.
Even so this is a updated older post. I`ll tell you what my tech instructor did in the late 60`s. He had a 55 chevy 2 door. Tubbed, 5.13 gears and a locker.
Under the hood was a 283 bored to a 4 inch bore, 3 inch stroke forged crank.
He`d beef the bottom end of the block, get a set of good rods and forged pistons. The rest would be invested in valve train and induction. He`d use the biggest solid cam he could get. He used fully ported camel back heads with big valves and the valve train set up with the best avalible to match the cam. He ran a dual quad tunnel ram with twin holleys. Tranny was a GM 3 speed manual. He`d pull up, do his burn out, then ease up to the line. Sitting at the line he`d floor it, let the engine tach to 9500 RPM. When the light went green he`d side step the clutch. And in his words "If it didn`t break, you went fast. But it did break alot" he showed me exploded clutches, grenaded transmissions, twisted axles, carnaged lockers, driveshafts sheared off at the welds, you name it. He said he never lost if it didn`t break.
He did mention a few times it was hard in those days to find pushrods that would handle the stress. He also said he rarely ever had engine trouble. The one time he had any major engine trouble was when the pressed on balancer came off at the line while tached at 9000 RPM. When it hit the track it exploded which blew a hole in the track. The advantage to his combo was it was just a 3 speed, he only had to shift twice and he was in high gear. I`ve seen others try this same thing on 1/8th mile tracks but not successfully. Why was due to them trying to use a 5 speed transmission and they couldn`t shift it fast enough. On a 1/4 mile track, it would likely be a different story.
He said it was a lot of work, hassle, and very frustrating to constantly have to fix it but to him it was all worth it to win. He would get about 1 season out of the engine before it needed a rebuild.
Motor is in dragster, still need pushrods, I keep 2nd guessing myself on the length also have to find out the best place for a evac system from valve cover to header.
The 331 is running
So far it wants 40 degrees of timing, idles @ 1400
630 lift 274 @0.50 2 660s still a little fat.
Here's a vid if anyone wants to see/ hear it.
Thanks for all the help.
i built a 85 chevy truck a few years back i started with a 010 4 bolt put in a small journal 327 forged crank,pink floating rods with trw .325 dome pistons 291 double humps with 2.02 1.60 valvels no porting isky 280 550 solid cam had it all race balanced 3500 stall, big headers,roller rockers,600 holley vac secondary,victor jr intake i dont know how much power it made but i shifted it at 8000 and it ran awsome i pulled it out and put it in my dirt car and wow it was a 360 cubic inch class and it would eat those 360s for lunch so i like the 327 very much and if i was goimg to build a small block today it would be a 327 i ran the engine im ny dirt car all year and when the season was done i put it back in my truck and at 55 mph if you laid into it it would walk sideways it was fun to drive
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