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Old 12-28-2002, 06:40 AM
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Post Older Caddy Engine (Boat Anchor?)

I have two caddy engines, one a confirmed 1976 500ci I want to keep for future project or trading material. The other appears to be a touch smaller I want to say it is a 425ci but not sure, I do know it is late 60's vintage. Is this (425)worth anything or should I make room in my shop. I also checked the net for the engine id numbers for caddy, but have not found one can anyone help?

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Old 12-28-2002, 07:20 AM
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Hello.
Im working on a 500ci Caddy myself. Although I dont a lot about the 425. There are a few guys running them in another forum Im in. There are a few parts suppliers also. Also, Id keep the 500. There starting to get bought up and they are great engines. Id kick the 425 to the curb and just build the 500 if it were me. Im building a 500 horse, 550-600ft lb motor that will run on pump gas. Also the 500 is the same size as a BBC, but weighs only 49lbs more than a SBC! These 500's are absoulte tourque monsters that could pull an oak tree out of the ground. They do it at low rpms to, so you dont have to rev the crap out of em.
Check out <a href="http://www.500ci.com" target="_blank">www.500ci.com</a> for more info. Click on the one that says click here toexplore the largest cadillac performance on the net, then click on MTS message board and last, click on enter the message board here. Its a cool group. Check itt out. HG
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Old 12-28-2002, 11:09 AM
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More than likely, if your other engine is from the late 60s, it's a 472, if it's from the late 70s, it will be a 425, the 472s and 500s are not boat anchors, they just make enought torque to power a tug-boat.
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Old 12-28-2002, 02:05 PM
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Back in high school I had a firebird with a 500 caddy in it. It ran very well and all I did was recurve the dist., good valve job with minor clean up port job, ported the intake, and nice carb. This comboran very good and I raced several very hot samll blocks and they didn't stand a chance. With all the performance parts on the market for these now you could build a very good combo cheap.
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Old 12-28-2002, 03:32 PM
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A friend of mine just put a 472 caddy motor in a I think '83 Monte Carlo. It's pure torque, I mean this thing has the "econo gears" and it's just chuggin' along and will put you back in the seat hard! It has a very distinct sound/rumble that only massive cubes will give ya' and not be luggin the motor.
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Old 12-28-2002, 06:01 PM
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hey racer56, what year firebird did u have that caddy in??? Was it a first generation?? what kind of motor mounts did u use??
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Old 12-30-2002, 01:48 PM
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Wow. Thanks for the info guys. I have to say that the smaller of the two engines I have came out of a '69 caddy hearse, but it was not original. so I have no idea what Ci it actually is. I would like to know because I have heard that 472 heads on a 500 block make a seriously fast engine as long as the valve float don't meet up with the piston. I would really like to know what I have so I don't get rid of something worth keeping. (I already have plans on keeping the 500ci) <img src="graemlins/pimp.gif" border="0" alt="[pimp]" />
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Old 12-30-2002, 02:23 PM
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From 70 - 76, rear wheel drive cars came with the 472, front wheel drives (Eldorado) with the 500, the quickest way to tell the dif, is that the 472 has a front sump pan, and the 500 a rear sump. Now in 76 this was not always the case, as they were switched around a bit, the 425 has a rear sump pan, but it is different, as in it goes ALL the way to the back, also, the 425, although a good motor is not very good for a build up.
If you look at the stock intake, you will see that it is a joke on the 472 - 500, it has a reverse plenum, as in the gas goes down, then back up, then down to the cyl.'s, i have seen a number of times a 75, yes 75 horse increase with just the Edelbrock performer intake. the exaust was also sick, and you can get another 75, yes 75 dyno proven horse by adding headers. BBC headers have the same pipe locations, so you use a set that fits your ride, chop off the flanges, and weld on those available from a couple dif places. with a STOCK build, the intake and headers, you can have a easy 500 Hp, and more torque that you or your rear end can stand. One more thing to mention, you Must upgrade the timing chain to the $100 one in Jegs, or you will have problems.
I built a twin Turbo, 975 HP on the Dyno that went into a Jag, it was a monster.
About the heads, all are fairly equal in the flow, but there is open and closed chamber, put open on a motor with closed chamber pistion and you have 7 to 1 comp (great for twin turbo) put the closed chambers on a open chamber motor and you have 13.5 to 1, way to much for the aplication.
With a Cam, one of the rocker upgrades (weak point of the motors) the intake and headers, you will have a 600 + HP motor that will run for ever if you keep it below 5000 rpm's .

PS. to the fellow with the 2 engines, take a welding rod in a plug hole and measure the stroke, then compare it to your other motor, I will have to look to refresh my memory, but I believe the 472 is close to 1/4 shorter, and the 425 closs to 1/2 inch shorter stroke.
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Old 12-30-2002, 07:26 PM
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WheelsUpRacing, I don't want to start anything but I must point out a few inaccuracies in your post.

68-74 rear drive cars came with a 472.
70-74 Eldos came with a 500.
75-76 All had a 500
77-79 All had a 425
80+ had 368 power.

This info is for the big Cad motors only. I didn't mention the 350 Olds or diesel stuff.

The pans are interchangable. His pan would have fit the chassis. You can't tell by the pan what the motor came in originaly.

The 425 intake has the same carb pad height as a 472/500 intake. Both being lower than the port entry. The 425 does have a single plane intake. The 472/500 came with a dual plane. Both can be ported to flow within 10cfm or so of an Edelbrock performer. Some have claimed mixture distribution problems with the ported 425 and not the 472/500 intake.

75 HP with an intake swap???? On a stock motor???? When Hot Rod did the Junk Yard Jewel 500 they got a 37HP increase.

75HP with a set of headers???? Again, Hot Rod only made 11 more than the stock manifolds.

Read the article here: <a href="http://www.eldocountry.com/hrmtorque/" target="_blank">http://www.eldocountry.com/hrmtorque/</a>

There is a difference between the 425 and 472/500 manifolds. The 425 manifolds have a dimple to clear the upper A-Frame. That dimple will restrict the front cylinders a bit. It is a God Send for those doing a swap where A-Frame to manifold clearance is an issue.

BBC headers don't have an exact port spacing to fit the Caddy. They will work but need to be tweeked. Another issue with the BBC headers is that the BBC has the #1 cylinder on the driver side. The Caddys #1 is on the passenger side. With the stagger in the heads being different, The Chevy header that fit the chassis may not clear with a Caddy.

On a stock type rebuild, 10-1 compression, with the addition of a Performer intake, a mild street type cam, and headers, you can expect to see a real world 400 HP. Any more than about 425 HP and you are into big valves and head work. At about the 500HP mark you realy aren't talking about a daily driven street motor. You might drive it on the street, but it's a little rough around the edges.

Head flow, you are correct in saying that all flow about the same. The 120cc open chambers flow just a bit better in the low lift range. The 76cc closed chambers flow better at the higher lifts.
FWIW, a stock Caddy will flow 237cfm on the intakes and 160 on the exhaust at .500 lift. Not much better than a stock small block Vortec. Fully ported with 2.19"/1.75" valves(2.000"/1.625" stock) you could expect flow numbers around 275/215 @ .500 lift.

The 368/425/472 have the same stroke. 4.060". The 472 and 500 have the same bore. The 500 having a 4.304" stroke.

The 425 is not that bad of a motor. 4.082x4.060 They come with a 96cc head and flat top pistons. A 76cc head will make you 10-1. If forged pistons and rods(Stock is cast) are needed, use a 425 Olds rod and a standard flat top 402 Chevy piston. You would need a .043" overbore and to ream the Olds rod .009" to fit the Chevy pin. The big end needs no mods to fit the Caddy crank. The 425 is a very light motor. With an Edelbrock intake it will go an easy 45lbs less than a SBC.

I don't question your 975HP claim. That is unless you are saying this is with a stock bottom end motor. I have heard of 1100 HP blown alky motors built with the Caddy. The cranks will take 7000rpms. The blocks seem to be able to hold anything. The Cast rods and tin rocker retainers seem to be the biggest issues with an average hot rodded Cad. With their poor intake port flow and good exhaust numbers, they do take to turbos, blowers, and nitrous like a duck takes to water. With big boost or a bunch of nitrous, head gasket sealing will become an issue. The Caddy only uses 4 head bolts around each cylinder and have the same gasket problems that many others have as well.

Again, this was not posted to bash anyone or anything like that. Just getting the facts straight. Dan
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Old 12-30-2002, 08:31 PM
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Hey Dan.
You dig out any 455 rods for me yet? HG
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Old 12-31-2002, 01:48 PM
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Well you whooped the text book out, and re worded what I said, it's all good, as long as the fellow figures out what he needs to know.
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Old 12-31-2002, 02:02 PM
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What do you mean by smaller?? did I miss that? The 500,472,425 are all the same block just differant bore and strokes. The site Himmie is talking about www.500cid.com is full of info. you can even get the ID book they have for I think 6 bucks.

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Old 01-27-2007, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New2theart
I have two caddy engines, one a confirmed 1976 500ci I want to keep for future project or trading material. The other appears to be a touch smaller I want to say it is a 425ci but not sure, I do know it is late 60's vintage. Is this (425)worth anything or should I make room in my shop. I also checked the net for the engine id numbers for caddy, but have not found one can anyone help?
if its late 60's it can only be two engines, 1968 up is a 472, 1964-1968 would be a 429 (which in my opinion is junk) if it is a 472 then hold onto it. i'll try to find some id numbers for you.
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Old 01-27-2007, 01:39 PM
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Take if from me.. They make fine boat anchors.....

But after you have had a couple six packs it is a really challenging experience to get them up and back into your john-boat.

They are great below 5000 rpm.... very expensive if you want to build a revver.

Remember about 6 years ago when a "mag" put a stock 500 in a Chevette and ran drags???? yyyeeeeeeehhhhhhhaaaawwwwwwww
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Old 01-27-2007, 02:33 PM
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I have a 500 in my 79 GMC... If I were to do it all over again I would go with a chevy big block (more and cheaper parts available) Although it has been VERY reliable and pulls hard up to about 3500rpm. Pulls my boat around with no effort, it just wasnt worth the cost and labor to do somthing just a little bit better then stock.... cool to tell people I have a cad in my GMC though
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