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Olds 350 help, 2 dead cylinders & cam lift Q?

8K views 35 replies 6 participants last post by  360Camaro 
#1 ·
I got a 442 for my wife for $500 after her Ford Tempo was totalled by a truck. No more tin can cars for her... :nono:

The seller insisted the 350 motor/tranny combo was rebuilt. The TH350 is good, it chirps the posi wheels good. After putting on a good Holley 600cfm carb and draining the water from the crankcase (hood louvers rusted the aircleaner) I fired it up. About a jillion header leaks so new headers and exhaust to the back of the car. Cylinder #1 and #7 actually glowed their header tubes (I assume from the fresh air so close).

With new exhaust the motor runs awful, initial timing is set right. I even rebuilt the HEI distrib with Pertronix parts and used Taylor 8mm wires. Car needed this anyway. Vacuum guage shows 14 twitching wildly (burnt/pitted exhaust valves?) Motor did sit for 5 years taking in water from carb thru hood (desperate here).

Block is #2 from 1968-1970. Heads are 79cc #8's from 75 smog era (442, should say Cutlass, since it's 1975 model). Compression test shows #1,3,5,7 all make 125psi (8.0 CR inline with model specs and 79cc chamber I guess). #4 is 135psi and #6 is 145psi. Odd, carbon build up?

#2 and #8 are 0psi. Removing this valve cover shows just a twitching intake rocker on #8 with sloppy pushrod (it read 110psi initially, but every try after is just 0). Oil control on #8 is messed, it's leaky bad, but I assume this isn't fatal. #2 intake rocker doesn't move at all, I didn't notice any slop in the pushrod. Intake manifold is still on, I know it might help if it were off but I can't do it quite yet where the car is (it still moves, barely).

1) I'm assuming cyl#8 is a collapsed lifter, because I saw it make 110psi once (so cam lobe can't be that bad right?), and I see no obvious damage to the head or springs (they are awfully clean too, no deposits; it does look like less than 10K on the motor). Even the slugs (thru the spark plug holes) look pretty clean to me.

2) As for cyl#2 I figure another collapsed lifter but then why no play in the pushrod? can a collaped lifter stick "up" in the bore to eliminate the play and still not touch the cam? No rocker movement, no pushrod play as well...

3) Perhaps the cam wasn't broken in right and #2 intake lobe is worn or rounded completely (#2).

This car is a factory no A/C, a 3.43 posi and factory hurst shifter from another car (orig. column shift), and now still retains new headers/exhaust/h-pipe. Seems someone raced it. But how with smog heads and low static cylinder compression (or is this bleed of from a cam?). The harmonic balancer even shows no wear at it's rubber ring. Obviously the block was changed, as it dates only to 1970 at latest, car is 75.

Can I get away with just changing the 16 lifters for $65 if the cam isn't damaged? Will they reseat on the lobes in otherwords? I've heard mixed reports on this. The converse, new cam on old lifters everyone agrees is bad.

Or do I need to buy a cam/lifter kit for $158 (cheapest) from Edlebrock or Lunati. I'm unable to find the max lift for stock #8 head springs (assuming stock, I don't wish to change them). Edlebrock has .448/.472. Lunati has a .451/.451 (was never crazy on single pattern). Only want the motor to hit all 8 cylinders, 6 isn't so good :rolleyes:

I figure once #2 and #8 breathe gas again this motor should run well enough if the distrib and timing chain are in correctly, a no money fix I can do. But I kinda need the 8 cylinders first to keep the motor running.

Thanks in advance for any ideas!
 
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#3 · (Edited)
MI2600 said:
The only way you're going to resolve the cam/lifter questions is to pull the intake and check. Off hand, I'd say it was lifters, but you should check the cam lobes with a dial indicator.
I agree. But unfortunately for me, I need to try to make this motor work real fast. That's a logistics problem on my end for sure; so I figure if I must buy insurance I would. i.e. a cam/lifter kit to bring back the dead cylinders (hopefully). Can "maybe" get standard lifters locally in a couple days. A cam would be next week from internet...Local speed shops carry Ford & Chevy.

In otherwords, I would like to have the parts arrive ASAP, to be put in ASAP. Being this way, I guess I have to buy a cam kit. But will the stock #8 springs (they look large) take the .471 or .451 lift (I'd like to retain the springs if possible). I've changed the springs with heads off my SBC and it was hard enough. I don't consider .451/.451 very high but I simply can't find the Olds coil bind #'s for a #8 350 head... or the stock cam #'s, assuming that's what's in the motor (all clues point to stock spec cam, but not 100% obviously).

If I do get the chance to examine the camshaft, and it specs fine with the dial, can I just get the 16 lifters than to save $ or is the verdict still out on this? I've heard it's fine and also it's not recommended. :confused:

Thanks!
 
#4 · (Edited)
Well according to some specs on the web... the "weakest" Olds 350 cam (a peanut I guess) had these specs.

400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 (Also #562299)

P/N, 36 is overlap, 250/264 is dur but at 0 degrees so that's bogus. But lift of just .400", and most were single pattern. The marine and hi-perf went to .440 and .472" lift respectively, single pattern too.

If I took the Lunati bumpstick at .451/.451" how can I find if it will bind my #8 stock 350 Olds head springs?? Cam companies like to sell their springs (not cheap for Olds, or easy to put in) too. Not always needed though... unless lift is up there or you need strong pressure, fast springs. I just need the motor to work.

1.6 rockers on .400" SBC, let's say, cam would make .427", doubt that would cause a problem. Olds rockers are 1.6 factory. Any guesses as to whether or not .451" lift would bind springs that work on a .400" cam?? I've heard Olds springs are the same as Ford's 302 springs. Sounds odd to me.

Then again Olds valvetrain is non-adjustable. Perhaps all the more reason to get a lifter/cam kit rather than just lifters (lifter height should be common right)? Seems Edelbrock's kit it more streetable but has the .472" lift, less duration. Lunati is more street/strip with .451" lift but uses more duration. Both companies valvesprings are of different dimensions.

I just want to fix this motor for the wife. Lifters only would be nice. If I have to throw a cam in, good lord, it'll probably make more torque & eat more gas than my built 360 SBC... and want a 2500 stall too.

Thanks
 
#5 ·
I guess general consensus for Olds motor is don't go over .500" lift with stock springs. One or two cam steps hottter than stock, i.e. 204/214 @.050, .448/.472 lift would be fine. So I guess it's the Edelbrock kit for $158 since I can't tell why my #2 intake rocker doesn't move. $67 for 16 stock lifters vs $158 for Edelbrock kit.

$91 delta and I get a cam perhaps a day later. I guess it would be foolish not to go this route... nobody comments much on new lifters with old cam lobes. Extra work & money, but should produce more ponies as a reward.

Unless there is another reason why #2 rocker won't move I can't see why this wouldn't produce a running engine...
 
#6 ·
Unfortunately, I'm Chevy too. But, I find it hard to believe that the springs couldn't handle .450. I also wonder what the Olds cam lobes look like if they only lift .400 with 1.6 rockers.

The only way is to pull that intake and take a look. Think positive...think lifters.
 
#7 · (Edited)
MI2600 said:
Unfortunately, I'm Chevy too. But, I find it hard to believe that the springs couldn't handle .450. I also wonder what the Olds cam lobes look like if they only lift .400 with 1.6 rockers.

The only way is to pull that intake and take a look. Think positive...think lifters.
Well I pulled the intake... brand new lifters. What a shame. I find a brand new rebuilt engine just like the seller said. However, I feel it was over revved.

#2 and #8 intake pushrods were bent almost 90 degrees. So I took "known good" lifters from cylinder 4 and put em in #2 (keeping track) and put two good rods. I thought I would then re-check the compression to get a non 0psi #. But halfway thru the crank the pushrod again bent.

Just a guess on my part, but it seems maybe some jarhead floated the valves, and the #2,#8 intakes kissed the pistons and bent so they can no longer move in the head? How else would the purshrods keep bending?

Now I have a fresh rebuilt Olds 350 rocket (with high lift I might add, the springs/cam are not stock) and it seems one cylinder head is toast. With no machine shops here, I'd need a replacement head, $137. But it wouldn't match the other side probably even if I ordered 2 (this happens here often). Can a backyard mechanic put in just two valves?? Motor just has to work... it's quite strong on 6 cylinders after adjusting timing... Or am I up the creek?

Another possibility... the motor does seem to have a bad backfire thru intake. Could the timing chain be off enough (even one tooth) so that the valves hit the pistons thus causing the 2 bent pushrods?? Shouldn't there be more bent? I did run and rev the motor like this (at idle) but never over 2000-3000 because I knew it had a problem.

Thanks
 
#8 ·
I guess not many people work on Olds for hotrodding... I can see why, parts are tough to get, and pricey. It's a good motor though. Nice bore/stroke ratio.

I'll pull the front cover and look at the timing chain today. If it's wrong, I'll fix and hope the valves aren't bent. The starter had no trouble bending a pushrod in less than 1/2 a crank, they seem quite week, maybe good news for the valves I guess.

Can't find 8.25" pushrods for nothing... bent 3 now... Olds typically uses longer ones. But performance cams use the smaller ones. Just can't find em online anywhere.

If the chain is right, I guess I can assume the passenger head has two frozen/bent intake valves and must be replaced. Great now I'll have mismatched heads. I don't care if the gaskets don't leak. Just want to fire all 8 cyls and have my wife drive a safer car.

Thanks
 
#9 ·
Finally some good news!

NAPA is getting a local speed shop to match a physically broken lifter (some top side chewed off by pushrod) and 3 bent chromemoly pushrods. That will take care of the broken bits. They are definately not stock pieces.

I tore off the front of the motor and the timing chain/sprockets are brand new, correct dimples, & looks like it belongs on a big rig. The teeth are huge.

I removed the head with the stuck intake valves. I find that someone even ported the intakes and added molten metal to close the "Olds gap" in the center two exhaust ports that normally results in 20hp loss.

I observed no piston (flattops) or valve damage at all. Except #2 and #8 pistons have never been fired. I began tapping the #2 intake valve with a metal hammer. Isn't this a Ford tool? :D Couldn't resist. Seriously I like all cars that have muscle and even work for that matter. This "freed" the valve and it now springs as the others do. 7 working cylinders!

Tried to tap #8 intake valve but that sucker is frozen somehow, like rusted or heated shut to it's seat. I guess tomorrow I will try a butane torch and the hammer again to try to free it as well unless someone has another idea?

There's no way I'm replacing this head now. If I have to install a new valve myself I will. Even my 1 valve no-angle valve job would be better than 8 junky valves on the rebuilt heads available local here.

Seems this 442 '70 Olds 350 rocket has the goodies to give my 12sec Camaro a run for it's money. I just need it to reliably get the wife to work. Gotta love American muscle.
 
#10 ·
It sounds like the valves seized in the guides. I had that happen. I broke a pushrod and bent a valve.

Your backfires are from the intake valve being open when it fired.

Coax that last valve out so you don't crack the head. A little heat might help. Best yet would be to take the head to a machinist.

Sometimes the best tool to use is....the PHONE BOOK. LOL.
 
#11 ·
He's right, sounds like they may have seized. I can tell you this, I just had a set of olds heads redone at the machine shop about 2 or 3 weeks ago. Well, i got them home and went puting them together and the intake valves wouldn't go in and the exhuast valves were tight. I took the heads to a different machine shop and he checked them for me and said they did them just like a chevy. While both olds and chevy use a 11/32 stem, the olds is larger. Iwould slide a chevy valve in just fine but not an olds. The second machinest said there is different reamers for the olds guides. He fixed them for me for minimal charge.

Personally, I would take the heads to the machine shop and have em checked out. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but anytime you have to heat up a valve or hit it with a hammer, its way to tight. You gotta double check all machine work, especially on a non-chevy engine. It seems they all can do a chevy but few can do an olds or pontiac, etc correctly. If you find one that can you'd better make them your new machine shop.
 
#12 · (Edited)
MI2600 said:
It sounds like the valves seized in the guides. I had that happen. I broke a pushrod and bent a valve.

Your backfires are from the intake valve being open when it fired.

Coax that last valve out so you don't crack the head. A little heat might help. Best yet would be to take the head to a machinist.

Sometimes the best tool to use is....the PHONE BOOK. LOL.
Did you bend the valve trying to free it from being seized in the guide?

I can see how the intakes would cause the backfires. Though they seem closed. Then again, when I "freed" the #2 intake with the hammer the spring popped up a little so it must have been struck down somewhat with valve open.

Will definately try to coax the valve without breaking anything (if I haven't already). The original engine builder made a pretty stout small block, but the seller let it sit 5+ years, plus water entered thru the hood/carb.

I planned on gentle butane heating of the intake valve (with an assistant) while I gently tap the valve top. Hopefully it comes loose. I've been to every machinest in my area within 15-20 miles. The stories I could tell. Plus when I tried to buy heads for my 350 Chevy I couldn't, from anyone. One place tried to pass me junkyard 305 heads. I said the CR would go thru the roof & motor wouldn't breathe; he said to turn the distributor to avoid the pings; I left... :rolleyes:

I am my own machine shop unfortunately. I have a welder, some air tools, and the will, and about 15+ years drag racing/engine assembly. Times are changing. When I need tires, I only bring my rims. Why? I caught the nation's leading tire seller beating on my front suspension on my 25th Anniv Camaro; I had to rebuild the damage. Real bad in my area...
 
#13 · (Edited)
firechicken383 said:
He's right, sounds like they may have seized.

Personally, I would take the heads to the machine shop and have em checked out. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but anytime you have to heat up a valve or hit it with a hammer, its way to tight. You gotta double check all machine work, especially on a non-chevy engine. It seems they all can do a chevy but few can do an olds or pontiac, etc correctly. If you find one that can you'd better make them your new machine shop.
I agree. Someone might have botched these heads. But if that is true, in my area, heads are only completely redone (no minimal charge here), and that's about 250+ per head. I have a spare Chevy V8 in my garage for a rainy day. For $120 for Monte Carlo headers and $40 for a TransAdapt Olds TH350 adapter I could make the 442 Chevy powered & be done with it.

Couldn't the valves have seized from sitting 5+ years with the water in the motor & oil? It is 2 intakes that seized, and they would get the rain water from the hood louvers and open carb...

If I free the other valve, it'll be a trial by fire for this engine. I'm buying a head gasket and putting it all back. If she bends the pushrods again, I guess I'll know they used the Chevy reamer... at which point the car will get a Chevy engine and I'll store the Olds 350 for a really really rainy day.

$500 is too high for me plus experience has unfortunately taught me not to trust shops (Dr.'s, Laywers, etc, :rolleyes: ), though I'm sure there's plenty of good shops; I just never stumble on them & have grown tired of trying.
 
#14 ·
$500 is too high for me plus experience has unfortunately taught me not to trust shops (Dr.'s, Laywers, etc, ), though I'm sure there's plenty of good shops; I just never stumble on them & have grown tired of trying.
Believe me, if anyone know' show ya feel on this , its me. We got about 15 machine shops within an hour of me and I have to take heads to one shop for seats being cut and guides, them to another to have 1/2 " head bolts holes drilled, then another to fix the guides, and yet another to have the intake milled. The problem is very few of these shops are performance oriented and the machine shop that did my head stold me that I was the only olds work they had done in over a year. Know I see why they didn't get the guides right.


Couldn't the valves have seized from sitting 5+ years with the water in the motor & oil?
Well, heres what I would do, I'd take the heads off and tear them down myself, clean them up an dclean up the valves and see how they go in. If they push in with 1 finger and fall out when you turn the head right side up, they are probably fine. But if they are so tight you have to force them in and they remained in the head when turned upright, they are too tight. If you got a bent valve or two, you may also have a bad guide or two now.

Where are you located? I have a few sets of olds heads that I aren't using if your's turned out ruined. I was gonna toss some of em.
 
#15 ·
firechicken383 said:
Well, heres what I would do, I'd take the heads off and tear them down myself, clean them up an dclean up the valves and see how they go in. If they push in with 1 finger and fall out when you turn the head right side up, they are probably fine. But if they are so tight you have to force them in and they remained in the head when turned upright, they are too tight. If you got a bent valve or two, you may also have a bad guide or two now.

Where are you located? I have a few sets of olds heads that I aren't using if your's turned out ruined. I was gonna toss some of em.
Good idea. I had thought of it partially. The head is really clean as is, amazingly, but I will take apart especially the suspect valves, if not all 8, and see how they move in the guides. No sense in wasting my time, labor, and bad back.

I'm in Boca, Florida, I see you're in Arkansas. That's a nice offer from you. I'd make the drive but my Dad burned up my S10 Blazer's tranny towing my wife's totalled car (he rode the brakes hard all the way, I could barely move my Blazer). I have a replacement tranny waiting to go in, but the 4-4-2 is in the one car garage, and the bottom end blew on my 360ci Chevy (not been a great year really).

Will let you guys know tomorrow what happens with head disassembly. Thank you again for that generous offer.
 
#16 ·
I'm in Boca, Florida, I see you're in Arkansas. That's a nice offer from you. I'd make the drive but my Dad burned up my S10 Blazer's tranny towing my wife's totalled car (
Actually if you do need them, they cost of shipping would probably be less than the high-priced gas to get em. BTW, their nothing special, smog era like your current ones, but they are both in decent shape.

Hopefully, you'll find out more about yours, let us know.
 
#17 ·
You don't want to use the propane on the sping, it will weaken it. it will also melt the valve seal.

You don't want to use a metal hammer, use a "deadblow"/ piston hammer or a rubber mallet.

Use lots of WD40 or PB blaster or whatnot.

Why didn't you try that with the head on?

If you do get the valves free keep on pecking at them and spraying them with lube for some time. the last thing you want is to stick a valve and break a piston 5 minutes down the road.

Once they are free spray carb cleaner down each port and check for leaks.

If they leak pull the valves. you can lap them in by hand just like in the old days. The local NAPA should have some compound . Also napa should have a wooden rod with a suction cup on the end for lapping in the valves.

If they don't, don't worry>
make your own compound with lithium grease (or lard if it's what you got) and knock some of the sand off 80 grit sand paper and mix it into the grease. be sure to lube the valve stem well with pure grease before lapping the valves.
if napa doesn't have a wooden dowl/ suction cup setup just spin the valve by hand, using one hand on the keeper area and the other on the bottom of the valve. Work it until there is a solid shiny ring around the seat on the head and on the valve face.

If there is any rust or carbon on the stem wire brush it off but be sure to stay between the valve face and stem area that rides in the guide.
clean everything well, you don't want even one grain of sand in the guide when the valve goes back in.

also check the guide by doing a wiggle test. pass? good, now put the valve all the way in and hold your finger on top of the valve stem. press it into the head so your finger touches both the head and the valve stem , with your other pull the valve out and it sould "pop"... a sign of a good valve guide.

reassemble and check for leaks with the carb cleaner again.
 
#18 ·
NXS said:
You don't want to use the propane on the sping, it will weaken it. it will also melt the valve seal.

You don't want to use a metal hammer, use a "deadblow"/ piston hammer or a rubber mallet.

Use lots of WD40 or PB blaster or whatnot.

Why didn't you try that with the head on?

If you do get the valves free keep on pecking at them and spraying them with lube for some time. the last thing you want is to stick a valve and break a piston 5 minutes down the road.

Once they are free spray carb cleaner down each port and check for leaks.

If they leak pull the valves. you can lap them in by hand just like in the old days. The local NAPA should have some compound . Also napa should have a wooden rod with a suction cup on the end for lapping in the valves.
I thought of tapping with the head on. Only reason I didn't was me and another person "eye-balled" #8 and that intake looked crooked (turns out it seems straight now off the car). We assumed it was over revved and wedged. With only 10 bolts and a $15 gasket at stake, I kinda wanted to check the pistons and valve bottoms anyway. As it turns out, the last intake is so stubborn I would have removed the head at that point anyway for fear of breaking something.

I have a rubber mallet, but I must not have the right one. It's too soft. I see your point tho. Jar the valve without using metal hammer/breakage and lots of PB blaster/etc as to not crack anything. I can only hope the PB blaster does its stuff... #8 is really jammed. Come to think of it #2 that I tapped free isn't "as free" as the other intakes. It's very close though. She's moving, but a tad stiff (sounds slightly off too). You can't move much with hi-perf or even stock springs, without taking them out of course.

I do know this; #2 and #8 have never fired. The slugs are shiny. So these 2 pushrods bent immediately by the starter motor before the other 6 even fired for the first time. These two springs haven't ever been pushed on. They should feel a tad tighter with the hammer then right? I better look at their travel completely & disassemble at least these and one other "good" valve to see if the head was at least machined correct.

Carb cleaner is another good idea to check for leaks at the seat; I don't usually do too many heads/haven't dealt old/stuck/sitting ones. I did my SBC heads myself and constantly take it past 6000rpm, but the guy that did the crank messed up; I should have re-done that myself; live and learn.

The lapping ideas are also good. Hope is doesn't come to all that but thank you for the information. I'd rather do what I can on these ported heads to save a perfectly good rebuilt performance motor.

Will free this valve today & hopefully not break things. I'll also check the other valves & seats and report back.

Thanks again!
 
#19 ·
NAPA just called. Perhaps I outta use another...

$6 per pushrod and I must buy 6? $15 for one lifter. At autozone the lifters are in stock and 16 are $60 including 6% sales tax & I can buy just one for $3.50. I only went to NAPA because they usually have more parts available, particularly the odd 8.14" pushrods, which they still claim they can match up.

The guy said I needed gaskets. I said don't worry about that. He said so I'm the only guy who can get you these parts are you won't buy the head gasket from me? I said give me a nice price and we'll see. He said when you come for the pushrods... He needs to think how much $ he can get? NAPA sells head gasket pairs... I can get a single gasket elsewhere. Couple CC's between banks doesn't bother me on a non-race car...

He said I need a full valve job. I said no, the motor sat 5 years and 2 valves froze to the guides/seats. Why do I feel I am being screwed just trying to get small parts? Somebody pick me a state to live, anyone...

He wanted the block and head casting #'s... I gave them... 68-70 350 block, 73-76 heads... he asked where I got the #'s from!?! I said the engine. I'm may be in trouble here... as usual.

???

Once I get (big assumption here now) the new pushrods and have the valves freely moving without trouble or leaks, can't I just let the starter motor work the lubed up valves for a while & if everything doesn't bind up, give the HEI the 12v go ahead and let her rip?

I can temporarily snug down the "repaired" head to it's old gasket & let the starter move these valves full travel. If they don't bind I may be okay right? Or at higher RPMs a slight valve bend would jam things up? This should be "fully" detectable on the bench just inserting the valve with my hand?

I am seeing cylinder #3 has two equally slightly bent pushrods on intake and exhaust. I need to pull this head too? Or did these again bend due to valve guide friction from the 5 year deep freeze & just need new rods? Well it's hot here, but moisture is bad when you leave the carb open to rainwater. If the passenger head guides seem machined right, I'll assume the other head is machined correct at least.

Thanks
 
#21 ·
NXS said:
You might think about pulling the pan and checking the oil pump while you're at it.
:D LOL...

Joking right as the motor oils fine with 70psi & is glitter free. On the plus side NAPA called back, different guy, and nicely told me the pushrods suddenly went to $2.59 each in packs of four, and $3.99 for the lifter. I can pick them up tomorrow morning. I'll get 2 packs, something tells me I'll need them.

Can't do much with the motor today, too tired for one, and only have access to a decent valvespring compressor by tomorrow, professional one, not the rickety ones at the parts stores. Don't need a valve lock poking my eye out (I do wear safety googles tho, still get hurt sometimes, nature of the job, even done carefully; every time I'm at the ER I see at least one blue shirt mechanic with a stitched up hand); worse than that I'd loose it & not be able to buy Olds valve locks anywhere. :thumbup:

This motor better run forever, it's too dang hard to get the pieces for it. :rolleyes:
 
#22 ·
Do yourself a favor and check the valvestem to valveguide clearance before bolting this thing together again. If those valves stuck on the first startup chances are they'll stick again the next time the engine gets hot. The guides sound like they need to be reemed. Competition products sells a cheap little valve guide hone for doing this, I think I paid about $3 for mine. This way you'll be able to open them up some yourself.
 
#23 ·
baddbob said:
Do yourself a favor and check the valvestem to valveguide clearance before bolting this thing together again. If those valves stuck on the first startup chances are they'll stick again the next time the engine gets hot. The guides sound like they need to be reemed. Competition products sells a cheap little valve guide hone for doing this, I think I paid about $3 for mine. This way you'll be able to open them up some yourself.
This is a hand operated brush-like twirling tool right? I think I've seen one but can not find where to get one (I did locate Competition Products address in WI). Most car engine valve stem clearance is like .001-.003" intake and .002-.004" exhaust I think (thermal expansion). It would be great to be able to open them up a little if that's what is needed; that is if I can do it without over doing it.

Isn't it safe to say the 2 intakes froze because of the engine sitting exposed to rain water? I mean you can literally eat from the lifter valley it's so clean. When someone assembled the head, they would have had to be fairly incompetent and sorta jam the valves in hoping they would loosen up on their own (if it was done to Chevy spec let's say). But when the heads heated up on first engine run, for example, they could have frozen in the guides when the motor cooled, bent the pushrods on next start, and left 2 pistons practically new looking (and head chambers). I really don't think #2 and #8 intake lobes on the cam got their 20 min break in. That's how new the pistons look. Another problem in itself as these lobes will cause me trouble.

#2 and #8 pistons "seem" to have never fired, shiny new. If the seller, a good friend of mine, truely chirped the wheels into 2nd gear as he tells me, he must have done it on 6 cylinders, and the valves were locked from Georgia where he towed and bought the car from. He stored the car 5 years. Who knows how long Georgia owner stored it.

The #2 and #8 combustion chambers have no evidence of carbon at all, just lots of rust. #4 and #6 are smooth, rust free, and have carbon, looking totally normal. Gentle tapping of #2 intake freed this valve. Not so with #8 intake. With open hood louver 442 hood, carb taking in rain water, I would expect the motor to collect more water in the back. But I will definately dismantle the 8 valves of this head tomorrow morning and hope the valves "fall out" when I tip it over. I'll be sure to keep em in order.

Even if their movement checks out fine, I'm concerned with cylinder #3. Two slightly bent pushrods, intake & exhaust. Perhaps the preload wasn't set right (Olds has to be perfect; no adjustment). Also the mega-backfires thru the intake. If there's no combustion on #2 and #8, shouldn't the motor just run on 6 cyls normally? Timing checks out (chain & distrib). Unless there is another intake that isn't closing somewhere... so running carb cleaner down these 8 valves isn't enough. I have to check for valve leaks on the other head even though the running cylinders all make 125 psi on the compression test? I thought the compression test might allow that head to stay on assuming passenger side valves move freely. Or is foolish not to check this head too because of the long storage time even with the proper compression?

Thanks
 
#24 ·
Did the seller say how long the engine was run before it was stored? If it was run at least a decent period, then the valve guides have rust (or something) on them.

I would still check the cam lobes before you reassemble it. When I had the seized guide, I used a dial indicator expecting the worst, but I was lucky. I have heard but not confirmed that Olds' cams were billet steel, not cast. Maybe the Olds guys can verify that.
 
#25 · (Edited)
MI2600 said:
Did the seller say how long the engine was run before it was stored? If it was run at least a decent period, then the valve guides have rust (or something) on them.

I would still check the cam lobes before you reassemble it. When I had the seized guide, I used a dial indicator expecting the worst, but I was lucky. I have heard but not confirmed that Olds' cams were billet steel, not cast. Maybe the Olds guys can verify that.
For the runtime, all I know is the previous owner, my friend, said he tooled around the block a few times chirping the wheels (30-40 mins) with the shift kit. He admits when they got the car he said the engine was "messed" bad. I can only assume this means 6 cyls based on the 2 shiny pistons. He paid a mechanic to remove and "fix" the motor. In a single day he watched a man remove and reinstall the motor, & before he re-installed it, it was run on a stand. But my friend knows nothing about cars, yet, he has the desire now. 6cyl on glasspacks sounds just like 8cyl, I think my friend was duped and this mechanic took his money. I know the motor was pulled because of the crappy 5min job putting the bellhousing bolts back loose (among other things). And forget the exhaust, completely botched... so I thew $284 and redid the whole thing myself headers/h-pipe/etc...

The trans is top notch, TH350 with strong shift kit. Posi 3.43... great brakes & steering. Not a leak anywhere from the car. New white letter 255/60/15 rubber on original 442 SS II rims all around, Hurst rachet shifter added, interior complete. Paid $500. I thought it was a deal. Still kinda do. Fresh motor and trans, heads are ported and have molten metal added in the correct areas to build Olds HP. Timing chain & valvesprings are so big that, if that's stock, hats off to Olds; I just need to undo the mess either caused by 5+ years of sitting and/or bad cylinder head machine work.

Then, I asked when was the last time the motor ran? He said new gas tank, radiator, and floorpans were put in; They were put in. Then he said it sat like 3+ years (after his tire chirping run), then it was run for 30-40 mins. This time, I must assume this was combination of oil and water because of the rain entering the crankcase thru carb. So a grey type oil was formed. This is how I bought it approx 1.5 years later sitting under the same tree. I ran it about 20 mins at his place. After one oil change, I ran it probably another 20 mins. I see no grey oil anywhere, it looks like a brand new crate motor with racing type oil pressure. No rust on the heads topside, but #2,#8 combustion chamber looks like they were under water (rust). Pistons and walls look real good. Head bolts were torqued perfect and a fel-pro head gasket was used. "Turkey-pan" on the intake manifold with rubber ends still soft and new in appearance and feel.

I think I will check all the cam lobes, easy enough to do now (do I put break-in stuff or leave it be? suppose that's answered by the dial indicator and/or visual of the first and last lobe where pushrods left the lifters real quick). If only to read it's lift and estimate the motor's power (if it's not labeled on the front of cam). As far as billet, there is a large rectangular opening in the lifter valley above the cam (oil drainback I suppose) that gives me a clear view of about 3-4 lobes. It looks like a roller cam, but obviously can't be. Very shiny and chrome-like, not cheap like the cast one I put in my Camaro. I looked for "black" areas, but no, it's all real shiny metal.
 
#26 ·
I can't free the #8 intake. One lousy valve is killing an entire rebuilt engine. Oh well. I tried WD40, Marvel, PB blaster... soaked forever, tapped with rubber mallet, then hammer (reasonable taps) in desperation; no good.

Removed the locks and spring (big crack sound, like freeing rust). It's clearly got a bit of rust at the stem to the top of the guide. On the bottom side, it's obvious that about 3 or so chunks of rust keep the valve slightly open and rusted to it's seat.

May try to remove these chunks at risk of damaging the valve/seat. But if I kill the guide or bend the valve it's really all over with. I doubt it's worth re-assembly time & money running on just 7 cylinders.

Wasn't able to disassemble the other valves yet, the tool seems broke after the first one. Unless these are all frozen at the top with rust (tried spraying them too), the tool just torques bottomward (by valve) and doesn't push down the spring.

The reason the #3 pushrods are bent slightly is because the machine shop never properly cut the top of the valves there, so the rods bend. I could spend $150 to make them all adjustable, but wouldn't until I can free #8 intake & hear the motor fire on all 8.

For under $200 I can install my spare Chevy 305, 200HP but it runs good. One lousy valve, I guess it's probably happened to others at some time... :sweat:
 
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