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Old 11-06-2012, 02:53 PM
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olds 455

Hey guys I'm wondering what the differences both good and bad to the olds. 455 and pointiac and buick?
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mistagoodbadguy View Post
Hey guys I'm wondering what the differences both good and bad to the olds. 455 and pointiac and buick?
That's like asking to compare Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler motors. Each is a completely different design and share nothing except for the bellhousing bolt pattern (OK, Pontiac and Olds use the same starter). Each has a different bore and stroke, different cylinder head designs, and different issues with building a performance motor. Each of the three will have proponents who claim the others stink.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mistagoodbadguy View Post
Hey guys I'm wondering what the differences both good and bad to the olds. 455 and pointiac and buick?
I love a straight line like this! Go here not a techncial answer but one to enjoy.


Bogie
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:00 AM
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In "stock form", the power output is similar among them. The Buick has a slight advantage with a tad more torque. It also has much less "mass", as it weighs ABOUT the same as a small block. That's both a blessing and a curse. The light weight advantage is obvious. But the block is very "thin", resulting in a lot of flex at higher revs. They're known to throw the crank out on the ground if pushed too hard.

The Olds is nearly a "mirror image" of the Pontiac with some minor (but significant) differences. The heads on the Olds are pretty "bad". A lower revving, hydraulic cammed version is quite powerful and reliable.

The biggest difference with the Pontiac is how it "responds" to modifications. Adding performance enhancements makes the Pontiac a real contender, not just a "point prover". Like the Chevy engines, when you "pump up" a Pontiac, it PUMPS UP! No problem at all getting 700 or more HP from a stock block. The aftermarket goodies makes getting over 2,200 HP doable (blown/alcohol). The quickest N/A Pontiacs are in the high 6s.

Yes, I AM a "Pontiac guy". It's not just "brand loyalty", but the above description of the potential. How many 6 second Olds or Buicks have you ever even HEARD of? I know of at least 15 Pontiacs that go in the 6s over 200. At the 2010 "Super Chevy" show (VMP), Dirty Bird was THE quickest GM-powered car (and there was an 800 CID Chevy powered ProMod in the 'mix"). In the competition, only two Chevys were quicker than Frank Gostaylia's GrandAm. He sports a 540 CID Pontiac with a singel 4-bbl. and gasoline. 7.40s @ 195. The two Chevys were 738s with nitrous and were about .05 quicker.

If you have a Buick car, use a Buick engine. Olds? Olds... And so on.

FWIW

Jim
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body View Post
IThe quickest N/A Pontiacs are in the high 6s.
Right, and all the parts in that motor came straight from GM...

Yes, I'm an Olds guy, and I'll be the first one to say that Olds heads, especially the exhaust ports suck (or actually DON'T suck, which is the real problem...). The reality is that saying that Ponchos are better because of the performance of a hand-built motor with aftermarket block, crank, rods, pistons, and heads is not a very compelling argument. You should have quit after your first sentence. In stock form all are comparable and are equivalent for street use. If the OP is interested in performance parts, there are probably more available at lower cost for the Pontiac than for the other two. Ultimately it depends on what you're comfortable with.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:26 AM
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Buicks would have been a great design if they didn't cheap out on the block casting.

Olds engines are super durable and as such are used a lot in older towing applications.

Pontiac engines are somewhere in the middle.

For towing I'd take an Olds, for hot street applications under 500hp I'd take a buick, and if you're wanting to put a lot of money into a good racing engine I'd go Pontiac.

If someone would make a good aftermarket Buick block I'd take that in all applications.

When talking about the 350 engines I'd take an Olds over Buick or Pontiac in all applications.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:50 AM
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Aftermarket parts are part of this "world". I haven't seen an Olds aftermarlet block. The T/A Performance block is pretty good, but mid 8s is all they've been able to get.

My '70 GTO with a 366HP 400 never got beat by a W-30... Raced MANY. I'm one of those "old guys" that street raced back in the day, when stockers were the "rule". GTO didn't get its reputation from losing...

I simply pointed out the potential and performance from the experience gained in 35 years of building engines. I have customers running in the 10s with both Olds and Buick engines. It's no small task to get that level of power AND durability from those engines. A '68 GTO with iron d-port heads (670 castings) runs 9.80s on the "foot brake" and at 3,200 lbs. Stock block (455), stock crank, "run of the mill" heads (well ported, of course).

No need to argue over which is "better", as they have their niches.

PAX

Jim
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:01 PM
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I haven't seen an Olds aftermarlet block.
Nor has anyone, despite promises from a certain Olds specialty house over two years ago...
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:31 PM
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Well very interesting I was just wondering as I always loved olds and had a chance to buy a old 455 so was just seeing I'm not into making any serious power just want something different and heard u can build a decent amount of power if u want I never realy researched the others I knew pontiac has a better rap on performance but it seems there hard to find here so I picked up the olds as a impalse buy I love the look for them and by the sounds of it parts are cheaper for them I kno that dosent mean better but I just wanted to kno what everyone thinks this is a very stupied question and I kno the answer but heads can't be changed from eather
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mistagoodbadguy View Post
Well very interesting I was just wondering as I always loved olds and had a chance to buy a old 455 so was just seeing I'm not into making any serious power just want something different and heard u can build a decent amount of power if u want I never realy researched the others I knew pontiac has a better rap on performance but it seems there hard to find here so I picked up the olds as a impalse buy I love the look for them and by the sounds of it parts are cheaper for them I kno that dosent mean better but I just wanted to kno what everyone thinks this is a very stupied question and I kno the answer but heads can't be changed from eather
From above:

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Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Each is a completely different design and share nothing except for the bellhousing bolt pattern
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body View Post
In "stock form", the power output is similar among them. The Buick has a slight advantage with a tad more torque. It also has much less "mass", as it weighs ABOUT the same as a small block. That's both a blessing and a curse. The light weight advantage is obvious. But the block is very "thin", resulting in a lot of flex at higher revs. They're known to throw the crank out on the ground if pushed too hard.

Jim
A buick 455 is about the same weight as a sbc. Wow I had an electra wagon with the 455 and its was hugh. Heads looked as big as the BBC heads. they safed that much in just casting. Yikes i bet it is thin.

Hands down pontiac is the only other choice besides chevy. If you got an olds cutlass 455 sx then keep the 455 rocket. other than that trash the motor and start over with chevy. cheaper faster and much more reliable. Also a lot less parts chasing for chevy you can buy popular brand hop up parts for chevy from amazon these days and get free shipping. Olds/buick you will be in junk yards looking for parts. best to skip the ordeal.

I have seen 15K thrown at a buick engine that ran like crazy but was still slow for 15K. You put 15K in a bbc or pontiac you will be also be buying wheelie bars and 5 point harness.

Olds/Buick have no advantage over chevy/pontiac chevy has the big valves and pistons while pontiac has the long stroke and rods. As for a max effort bbc/poncho will be about the same output until you get to an area where you cant buy hotter stuff off the street for pontiac which is over 1500 hp range chevy you can get some parts off the shelf in most cases.

Butler performace has lots of big cube combos for pontiacs on there web site. Not sure whats a good site for chevy but its not hard to find a 800 cube chevy either.

Buick after market block is a dart BBC block undrilled if im not mistaken. I know you can get a block that works for a buick so nobody is ever going to make one specific for buick. Dart or world of product could answer that question better than me but i have seen them out there.

Dont rule out the Caddy 501/472. its not hard to find parts for these days and they make good power as well. Probably cheaper to build than olds/buick but more than pontiac and chevy. The caddy 501 is the most power from a stock production engine among BOP combos.

Also tranny bolt pattern for chevy is diff than BOP. If that helps.
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