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Old 07-24-2004, 11:33 PM
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omni mp282 sv high build primer surfacer & dbc

I am trying finish painting my car but don't know if i have to seal omni mp282 sv high build 2k primer surfacer. my basecoat is ppg dbc basecoat black and my tech sheet doesn't say for omni line paints. I've talked to local paint stores and one said it had to be sealed and if i don't seal it the paint will chip off easly because of it being black.the othere store tells me it doesn't and whoever told me that is crazy and it will be fine without sealing it .so can anyone help me i can't tust a paint salesmen I've already been took for to much money on this project.

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Old 07-25-2004, 12:54 AM
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Can't trust a paint salesman, huh?!?!?!?! That's funny....smart man!!
You don't HAVE to spray a sealer. You can sand your primer with 400 grit and get by just fine. Spray the sealer if you want, or omit it, it really is a personal preference. I would seal it if I thought there was a chance of filler bleed through or if the car is just spot primed, but I doubt you will have any major problems if you don't. You're better off spraying the DBC black mixing color (DMD1683) as is, rather than mixed to a formula. I've never gotten a straight black formula mixed color to match, but 1683 straight out of the jug matches perfect everytime. Also, don't follow the mixing directions of 1:1 mix it 3 parts color to 1 part DT885. DBC black is super thin right out of the can, so you can get by with this ratio, but only with the black. Don't try it with other colors, it'll be to thick. If you do decide to use a sealer, get a quart of DP90LF. it's a black epoxy primer/sealer. Mix it with DP401/402 and cut it a little with some DT885. A mix ratio of 4:2:1 will work well. You'll get by easily with two coats of color. Allow the DP to set 30 minutes before applying the base.

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Old 07-25-2004, 05:53 AM
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Randy hit this right on the money!
Now do the two jobbers a favor and print this for them so they know what their talking about.

In my opinion the only thing a 2K sealer is good for is uniform color, or filling the last sand scratches in the primer.

Like randy said if REAL sealing is needed the only thing that is going to do this is epoxy.

A footnote, Randy a 2K sealer will not stop bodyfiller from bleeding or known as staining. As a matter of fact even epoxy only has about a 90% chance of stopping the stain from coming through. Fortunately the filler companies have made corrections to the fillers where this is getting to be a very rare occurrence.
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Old 07-25-2004, 07:47 AM
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First off, you shouldn't mix paints from different lines. If you look on the "P" sheet it will tell you this. The correct thing to do would have been to use K36 or K38 Deltron primers then you wouldn't have a problem. At any rate you probably will be OK, however to be safe if it was my labor and money I'd spray a sealer because there is no guarantee these chemicals will be compatible with each other, otherwise PPG would list MP 282 as an acceptable substrate for the Deltron paint line.

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Old 07-25-2004, 08:24 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Centerline
[B]First off, you shouldn't mix paints from different lines. If you look on the "P" sheet it will tell you this.
************************************************
Of course they will say this! Do you think they want to give a warranty to a shop using DBU and their $60 gallon omni primer.?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The correct thing to do would have been to use K36 or K38 Deltron primers then you wouldn't have a problem.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Once the primer is dried he can use any 2K primer he wants, they are ALL compatible only time there will be a problem is if one was not mixed to proper ratio and than any primer going over could be a problem.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
At any rate you probably will be OK, however to be safe if it was my labor and money I'd spray a sealer because there is no guarantee these chemicals will be compatible with each other,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A 2k sealer will do nothing for incompatible solvents! 2K sealer is nothing more than a 2K grade primer with fine chromium or talc where as 2K primer will be a mix of course and medium to gain build. This is coming from someone that in a years time tested every sealer made and took the two best and tried to make one even better.
Also the only way you will find "Incompatible" solvents is if you purchased solvents outside of this industry say at Home Depot.
All the paint companies use the same basic solvents and probably 90% all purchased form "Allchem".
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is what an "Incompatible" solvent will do.
As you mix it will either blow up in your face or it will curdle.
So EITHER way you will never get it on the car to Begin with!
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Old 07-25-2004, 12:21 PM
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my car was originally stripped to bare metal. i had applied omni etching primer, sanded it, sprayed onmi 2k primer surfacer then block sanded it with 400 sand paper and reapplied 2k primer. my car has been already in primer for six months and there is no sand scratches or body bleed threw. now i want to know if i have to use the primer sealer. i also wanted to know if not using the primer sealer would lead to more chips and scratches? the reason why i had to strip the car to metal was because B&W paint supply store was giving me the wrong info and no tech sheets.
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Old 07-25-2004, 12:52 PM
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Scuff with 400-600 grit with hot soapy water and shoot it!!

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Old 07-27-2004, 07:39 AM
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Omni is a product of PPG, just their cheaper line and is compatable.I have used PPG's basecoats over Omni promers with no problems whatsoever. Spraying some epoxy primers over some fillers will lift the filler so caution should be taken on this.
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:49 PM
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I am walking on new turf here for me, so here is my question. I will be painting my car soon and using DBC with a clear. This car has rotting bondo and old paint with DP90 on top of it all. The DP is about 8-10 years old and the paint underneath it is probably 20 years plus old. The problem is the primer is chipped and the old paint and DP has started to lift, bubble and peel in areas. I am thinking the DP was applied over a bad surface and I am currently replacing the rotted areas with patch panels. So my questions are
#1. How do I strip this surface of the many coats to bare metal as it is really bad?
#2. I am planning on sealing the bare metal with DP epoxy primer, doing the body filler over the epoxy primer, spray it with probably a high build primer surfacer (My bodywork ya know) like K36 or K38 I think it is. Then do a block sand and shoot the paint. So do I need to seal the body filler before the high build or can I go ahead and paint over the high build primer after blocking? From what little spraying I have done of Deltron, I have gotten a good seal and color coverage before, so I would think not, but those were small areas like a dash and interior parts. Any recommendations on any other products or methods and systems?
Thanks for the help in advance.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:03 AM
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Ron,
Go back to the beginning of this thread and read the second post. There you will find the answer to part of your question. As for stripping, there are a ton of ways to do it. Chemical stripping is hard work and having it dipped requires that you dis-assemble everything. It's all in how good you want it. I hear some guys badmouthing the dip method, but I've had nothing but excellent results with it. The company I use, uses an alkaline solution rather than acid, so maybe that's it.

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Old 07-28-2004, 06:29 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BarryK
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by Centerline
First off, you shouldn't mix paints from different lines. If you look on the "P" sheet it will tell you this.
************************************************
Of course they will say this! Do you think they want to give a warranty to a shop using DBU and their $60 gallon omni primer.?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The correct thing to do would have been to use K36 or K38 Deltron primers then you wouldn't have a problem.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Once the primer is dried he can use any 2K primer he wants, they are ALL compatible only time there will be a problem is if one was not mixed to proper ratio and than any primer going over could be a problem.
Barry, I'm not going to argue with you since I'm sure you are a much more experienced painter than I. My point is only that for your adverage shade tree mechanic it's usually best to follow the directions of the people who spent millions developing their product. With the amount of labor and dollars involved anything else just doesn't make good sense.

Your assessment probably is right on the money, however most shade tree mechanics don't have the time or money to spend experimenting with different product lines to find out what works for them so following the manufacturers recommended procedures is always the best approach. Just because something works for an experienced pro doesn't mean it will automatically work for a weekend mechanic who paints one car every 5 or 10 years.

Just my $.02

Centerline

Last edited by Centerline; 07-28-2004 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 07-28-2004, 06:42 AM
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Good point!
But it never hurts to know.
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Old 07-28-2004, 06:44 AM
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Agreed.

Centerline
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