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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
it does not remove rust or filler . it does not leave an anchor pattern . it has the potential of causing a paint failure. and will void any warranty with many paint manufactures . it cost many more man hours .
Thanks again, added these points to the "Reasons against soda blasting" section of the wiki article.

We could use some pics for the article. Anyone have a pic of a poorly-adhered paint job that was caused by inadequate removal of soda blasting residue? We could also just use a basic pic of some soda blasting equipment, or a pic of soda blasting in-progress.

We could also benefit from links to paint manufacturer's warranties (or scanned copies) that specifically mention voiding from use of soda blasting.

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Old 08-08-2009, 06:27 PM
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We've done 4 corvettes with soda, never a problem. Agree on the chem strip. I wouldn't touch one either. You are right that soda does not leave an anchor pattern but when I prep a sandblasted part, and we use the finest blasting sand out there, I still sand the metal with 100 grit or 180 grit to knock the roughness off so my degreaser rag or tac rag doesn't catch on the rough metal. So regardless of soda or sand, it gets sanded anyway. That's just my preference though. Also, soda does remove body filler, just not rust.

Soda has its place, I just don't believe it's on paint removal over an ENTIRE steel car for restoration.

We've blasted entire newer cars with soda without taping anything up other than the door jamb seems to keep the interior clean.

1965 Rolls Royce Sodablasted. This was not a frame off restoration and alot of things were left on due to cost reasons, soda was the perfect choice.


Last edited by jeremyb; 08-08-2009 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 08-08-2009, 06:32 PM
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I worked on a MGB that was being converted to a 6 cylinder. It had been soda blasted before coming in for the engine conversion, and complete suspension, and steering rebuild.

Every nut, and bolt I removed caused lots of soda to drop from inside of the frame rails. Everything I removed had to be cleaned to get the soda off of it. When the firewall was modified, more was found under the dash assembly. I got as much of it out of the frame as I could, but at the time I did not know how corrosive it was.

The rubberized under coat seemed to adhere with no problems, but this was years ago, and I have not seen the car since.

I have some pictures of it, and I'll try to find them to post.

I did not like the experience I got working on that car that had been soda blasted, and I have not taken in a soda blasted vehicle since.
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Old 08-08-2009, 07:17 PM
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The rolls royce above is a perfect example of soda. The 40 year old paint HAD to come off. The car was complete and was not going to be taken 100% apart. Notice all of the glass and most of the trim still on. The interior is still in. There is no way you could take the glass and trim off of this car and blast it with sand, glass, or plastic media without damaging the interior. You couldn't leave it on without damaging it (trim, glass) either. When these hard abrasives hit the metal, they deflect elsewhere. Soda turns to dust when it hits. The car had no rust and needed very little bodywork. By leaving all the trim on the soda actually cleaned it all up, including any rubber seals and flaps. All of this was taken off prior to paint but it was kept on to keep the car as sealed up as possible to keep the interior as clean as possible. Still looks like it left the shop, 5 years later.

Could you do this with corn cob or acrylic? I'm not familiar with those medias.
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:51 AM
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we have been using acrylic, corn cob , walnut since the 70's to remove oem paint from peeling cars without taking them apart. no harm to anything.

soda is for industrial cleaning such as printing equipment and stainless equipment in the food industry where it has to be done on site and under strict regulations. it's secondary use was for monument restoration and graffiti removal. it was never intended for use in the refinishing business . even my composite supplier strongly recommended against it when i researched medias for blasting. i have seen first hand what happens and the one common thing is no one wants to admit they soda blasted the car and not one soda blaster that i know of has warranties their work. it is absolutely the worst thing for the diy guy to do. he is limited on experience and needs a simple system that is user friendly.

as for corvettes i have been working with them for 40 years and would never think of using anything caustic on one. it takes a week to ten days just to dry the water out of it much less try to get acid out of it.
the problem is some poor guy will fall for the 500 job by some guy with a trailer and then spend a year getting his car ready. when the bubbles start first thing he thinks is the damn painter did something wrong. or if he did it himself he will blame spi or ppg. my supplier sells complete rigs on trailers and the most common buyer is a retiree thats know nothing about refinishing and even less about paint removal.
every time soda is recommended i will counter it . if i can save one guy from the monster disaster that happens when done wrong it is worth it. it takes these guys several years to get one done and they need all the help we can give them . keep it simple so they can deal with it.
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Old 08-09-2009, 08:23 AM
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Right about the industrial use. In that extension of the business we pretty much blast anything, not just cars. Brick buildings, equipment, Glass. But when done right can be just as effective on cars. That's why we stress letting us do the prep work after any soda. ALL of our work is guaranteed not only by the company but also by our paint supplier. We've seen horror stories also and its ALWAYS due to failure to prep the product right. After about a year of being in the business we began to stray away from giving customers bare soda blasted parts unless it was for another restoration shop in town that had experience with it and knew the process.




Our media supplier has never warned against using soda on any vehicle. Our paint supplier has never told us they can't warranty their product on a sodablasted vehicle. And we've never had a single paint failure on a sodablasted vehicle.

For the do it yourselfer, i agree, soda really isn't the way to go. We really had to go to school on this stuff and learn it inside and out.
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:53 AM
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Included a pic of it removing body filler. I removed the information from the wiki article that says it doesn't and it seems it's been added back in.


Notice the filler on both sides of the brassed seam. The whole top of the quarter panels of this car was full of filler. Removed by soda.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 12:18 PM
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I won't even touch another car that was soda blasted...I'm totally against it..
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:20 PM
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Thanks again guys. Looks like we are approaching consensus.

I've added this to the Reasons against using soda blasting section: "Overall, probably not the best choice for the hobbyist or do-it-yourselfer."

And, I've added this to the Reasons in favor of using soda blasting section of the article: "For a professional, experienced shop that's well-trained in its use, does all of the finish prep work itself, and has a soda-friendly guarantee from its paint supplier, soda blasting may be a viable choice."

jeremyb -- you can click the "history" tab at the top of the wiki article to see all changes. From there, click one of the date lines to see that exact version, and you can use the radio buttons and the "compare selected versions" button at the top to do comparisons of certain versions. All edits include a date, as well as a username or IP address. This is essentially the same attribution as forums, but it's not done in-line (it would make the wiki article very messy). Even if someone adds a single comma to a wiki article, the change is recorded with date and username/IP.

Agreed that we need to clarify the body filler removal issue. The history page for the soda blasting article shows that I added that in, and then, this morning, it was removed by the IP 206.74.17.16, and then re-instated by Crosley. Let's get to the bottom of that.

We also need to clarify the rust removal issue -- what level of rust will soda remove? Is it just surface rust?
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:47 PM
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I see. Soda can remove light flash rush and tarnish. It will not remove actual deep pitted rust. And I would add, that in terms of actual blasting, Soda is actually 10x less capable of warping a panel than sand or other harsh abrasives. Honestly it all comes down to being educated with the right facts on the product and its uses. Maybe it does void some paint manufacturers warranties, but if you mix and match different paints that also voids any warranty. And how many of use mix and match primers basecoats and clearcoats and have ZERO problems?

Soda has a bad rap. Not because of the product, but because of the lack of knowledge people have about it. If you don't know the product inside and out, then you shouldn't use it or work with it unless you are willing to learn how to do it and do it right. Sadly, alot of people dont think this way and have really screwed things up. I recently looked at a car that was sodablasted by a competitor in the area. Half the bondo was still in the car and they just put regular 2k primer over the freshly sodablasted car and I could tell it right off. They NEVER told the guy how to properly prep the metal or anything. I instantly added about $1000 to my quote for job the because I would have to take it all back down to the metal again, the right way.

There are drawbacks to EVERY form of paint stipping in this business. Whether its cost, time, difficulty of use, harsh chemicals, or whatever it may be there is a drawback. Soda isn't the best blasting media out there, and its really an opinion on what is the best. Different people have different results. People stick to what they know and we know soda.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 02:16 PM
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OK, I've changed the rust line to read "Only removes light flash rust". I've also edited the body filler line to read "Will not remove thick coatings of body filler". That seems to be in line with what I'm finding on the web -- would everyone here agree with that?

I've added this to the Reasons in favor of using soda blasting section: "Doesn't harm glass, chrome, or rubber." And, I expanded a bit on how soda won't warp panels.

carsavvycook made a good point about soda residue hiding behind fasteners. This is in line with the point made about residue in cracks/crevices, but I've also added that in.

Also, by my understanding, the soda medium can't be reused at all, unlike other media. Can anyone confirm that, or expand upon it?

Here again is the soda blasting article as it stands now: Soda blasting.

And, here's the documented back-and-forth comparison page that shows the edits I've made on this round, in red text, for those interested in the wiki process: last round of edits on article.

I would agree that soda has a bad rap. However, it also appears to have a limited spectrum of use, in regard to both the part being blasted, and the skill set of the person doing the blasting.
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:41 PM
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Right you can't reclaim the soda after its use.

And here is an example of "thick" coating of body filler being removed with soda. I don't understand where this "soda will not remove filler" belief is coming from.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 03:05 PM
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Interesting. I've added in a bold statement noting that the body filler aspect is disputed. I also fleshed out the Soda blasting procedure section a bit.

The body filler issue is echoed in various anecdotal reports I'm seeing in Google. Perhaps the source of it is that soda can be variously applied to remove or not remove body filler, as desired? Is that correct?

For example, note this page from ResurrectionRods.com, a custom shop which says of soda blasting: "Body filler is also unaffected by the process, so previously repaired areas may be evaluated after stripping and either left intact or reworked." The same page goes on to say: "The blast technician makes smooth passes with the blasting nozzle to remove all of the old paint yet do no harm to any of a car's remaining rubber, glass, chrome or even existing body filler."

Here's an example of a Soda Blasting business (Power Soda Blasters) that says, on this page, of soda blasting: "It gently removes old paints and primers and can remove (or leave if desired) existing body fillers."

Is that the crux here? That soda blasting can variously remove or not remove body filler?

Either way, here's the latest version: Soda blasting, and here's the latest red-text update documentation: last update.
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:48 PM
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That's the beauty of soda. While it will remove body filler, you can remove all of the paint and leave the filler if desired. Doesn't mean it won't remove it. A lot of times we've found that on newer cars, we can blast off all the paint but leave the factory e-coat on also. Soda can be used on radiators, horns, engine hoses, clamps, plated and coated bolts (but will not remove the coatings), door latches (will not remove the protective coatings), hood latches, trunk latches, etc. I've even had a few of my old primer guns soda blasted..look brand new!
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:23 PM
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Yes, then, that is a plus, if you can remove only the paint, examine the body filler, then remove it.

So, you turn up the air pressure to remove body filler? Or you just blast it for longer?

Also, do you just pour the used media and removed paint/contaminants down the drain? Or do you use a filter/centrifuge or some such to separate the contaminants from the used soda solution?

There are some more potential soda blasting advantages listed here, that need to be reviewed: http://www.nutechsodablasting.com/content/view/3/7/ . I'm especially interested in the validity of their statements on pre-cleaning and surface flaw detection.

Also, found a crucial soda blasting discussion in the SPI forums that documents their official position on it. Added that to the wiki. And, added some info on soda blasting history.

The latest version of the article is here: Soda blasting. And, here's the red-text latest update details.
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