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Old 12-14-2003, 02:17 AM
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Question once more: doing things in the right order?

damn, this whole "bare metal respray" thing is hard! just taking the paint OFF was bad enough, now i'm supposed to put it all back on!!?? crap!

okay, basically i have removed every last skerrick of paint from my car, then cried as i discovered acres of rust hidden by a previous, semi-decent, paint job, and will sometime in the next week weld in the last patch panel of what i would estimate would be about 30...

unfortunately, i come from a school of welding that turns out really good grinders...

okay, so i now wish to take this thing back to a glorious, street-driveable, rain-immunised shiny thing. i have basically everything i need, i think:

- 2mm nozzle primer gun.
- loads of hi-fill primer
- 1.4 mm nozzle HVLP gravity feed top-coat gun.
- enough base-metallic and clear to paint my house. twice.
- more plastic filler than you can poke a stick at, or in.
- a big long straight body-filler file on a cool holder thingo.
- lots of big long straight flat things to hold sandpaper.
- lots of sandpaper.
- phosphoric acid to burn off any microscopic rust patches that i can't see.
- some wax and grease remover.

i think that's about it. first question - am i missing anything?

oh yeah, other than the compressor, i have one of those!

okay, second question involves the correct procedures for applying all this stuff, so that it doesn't all flake, peel, crack, run, rust or just plain suck...

here's my plan:

1. wash panel thoroughly.
2. apply phosphoric acid solution to kill any rust in pits or whatever.
3. dry thoroughly.
4. apply wax and grease remover to clean off any hand prints or whatever.
5A. apply plastic filler
5B. sand. repeat until flat. (i don't think i can use water here because body filler loves water and soaks it up, doesn't it? how do you get rid of all the sanding dust without water? a vaccuum cleaner?)
6. prime smoothed area. (how long can i leave body filler uncovered in summer, in a shed? a month? a week? a day? an hour? less? i don't want it to absorb anything bad...)
7. repeat for every panel on the car.
8. somehow clean all the primer (which i will no doubt have accidentally touched with the skin at some points by accident.) i was thinking just use the wax and grease remover again, or just sand the whole thing with 800 grit. any suggestions here?
9. spray the car with three to five coats of base coat metallic, praying that i've practiced enough to avoid runs! also waiting the apropriate time between coats.
10. three to five coats of clear.
11. 1000 grit.
12. 1200 grit.
13. buff.
14. collapse.


does this sound okay? any strategies for MAKING SURE i don't let water or any contaminants under ANY LAYER of the work? i've got so much time in this project i DO NOT want to screw it up!


i guess i'm pretty sure i know what i have to do, but any experts that can offer advice, dire warnings or "you got it, go do it's" should do so now... i need the reassurance.

thanks.

col.

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Old 12-14-2003, 12:32 PM
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I like to prime the filled places and start blocking them so I can tell how good they are. And you will be touching the primer many times as you will have to rub and feel the surfaces to tell when they are right, of course your hands should not be greasy or contaminated. Then after every thing is primed and blocked to a perfection, the last pass with sandpaper should be with 320 --380 grit dry,no finer or you will not get the proper tooth for the paint to bite and stay. Then wipe down with degreaser. No where in this process should you use water untill you get to the last sanding, after which you throughly wash the whole car, then blow dry. Go fore it. HTH

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Old 12-14-2003, 08:53 PM
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thanks troy...
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Old 12-14-2003, 09:35 PM
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also between steps 2 and 3 you should clear water wash the phospho solution off, i've found you will have better adhesion to the surface.
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Old 12-14-2003, 11:19 PM
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Of the thousands of paint jobs I've done, thats one I have never done.

Troy
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Old 12-15-2003, 01:35 AM
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I've read in many places you should wash the phosphoric acid off. I use naval jelly, and even the directions on the bottle say to wash it off with water. I thought at first that would be silly, because, well, I just removed the rust. Just be sure to fully dry it or you'll meet your worst enemy, flash rusting.
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Old 12-15-2003, 05:26 AM
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Exclamation

The biggest problem I see is that you aren't planning to use a good self etching or epoxy primer. One or the other of these base primers should be used over bare metal BEFORE any bondo is applied.

You have to seal the metal from moisture and neither high fill primer or bondo will do the job. They'll both absorb moisture and will promote rust on bare metal. Once you're done with the acid and everything is clean coat the entire car with something like PPG DP 90 or one of their good quality epoxy two part primers. Once the primer is dry rough up the areas where you intend to use bondo with 80 grit (don't remove the primer just rough it up so the bondo will have a good surface to bond to) then apply the bondo and proceed with the rest of your plan.

If you don't seal the surface before doing the bodywork moisture will attack the metal and it'll start rusting from the inside out all over again.

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Old 12-15-2003, 06:44 AM
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Some people do that now days and I guess it works alright. But I never have and I've never had any problems with bondo or paint not sticking, or rust coming out on anything I've ever built that was half way taken care of.

Actually I think it's a product that has it's use someplace. But I think the paint co. just wants to sell something, and it probably dosn't hurt anything.

I am still a firm believer in not applying bondo over anything, it was designed to go directly on metal. After I get every thing leveled and filled to where it's ready to paint, I apply a layer of epoxy primer sealer.

You'll probably will not find two people that do it the same.

Troy

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Old 12-15-2003, 07:48 AM
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Only thing I might question is the 3-5 coats of base coat. I don't think you will need to use that much. With these base/clear systems, the clear does most of the work.
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Old 12-15-2003, 08:20 AM
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Right just enough to cover.
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Old 12-15-2003, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by troy-curt
You'll probably will not find two people that do it the same.
No argument there.

Centerline
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Old 12-18-2003, 05:25 AM
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thanks for the heads up guys... i may go back down to the paint shop and discuss the various primers again, to see what they say.

with regards to the bondo, whether on bare metal or over an etch primer, how long can i safely leave it exposed to the elements? (the 'elements', in this case, being the inside of a shed in a hot australian summer... not a great deal of humidity...)

being that i have this pesky full time job to attend, i sometimes only get an hour or two of work done on the car in a night, and i'm curious if it's safe to leave a bondo job for 23 hours before you come back, finish it, and primer over it... ?
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Old 12-18-2003, 07:12 AM
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It will be ok.
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Old 12-18-2003, 07:36 AM
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This car has a 3 year old phosphoric acid wash, PPG acid etch, PPG catalyzed hi-build primer finish and there is no sign of problems. It has been garaged and we live in Bakersfield, CA which is also a pretty hot, arid area like you describe.
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Old 12-18-2003, 07:55 AM
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Last time painted 1975, 28 years ago. No acid or etch, just laq. primer and urethane sealer, BC<CC.

Very seldom gets to set in the garage. Doing its second frame off now, but the paint was in very good condition.

This is my wifes driver and she got rear ended,or it wouldn't be getting redone now.

Troy





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