One more Pro Topline ?/ will manifold fit? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 10-27-2003, 09:03 PM
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One more Pro Topline ?/ will manifold fit?

Sorry to be a pest, but tomorrow there should be some info at the machine shop on the Top line head problems i'm having.

According to the PTL site and the machine shop, the Edelbrock Performer manifold ( as with any other stock type SBC manifold) will fit the heads fine.

But here is my question. I cked my 350 thats in my truck, same Performer as we're putting on the 400, and the stock Fel Pro gaskets almost mirror the outline of the top of the Performer.
The intake manifold is maybe 20thousands below the gasket edge.

My question is, how will using a bigger gasket do any good if the manifold now, is right at, or below the top of the intake port?

I"m still not convinced that these PTL heads are the correct ones, or that they haven't seen some serious core shift. The bottom of the current PTL heads have the bottom of the intake runners up almost 1/8" above the gasket opening, and the top is a tad above the entire gasket.

If I use bigger gaskets with the Performer, or any stock type manifold, its not going to have any contact between the intake and head at the top of the intake runners.

What I"m looking for is all the info I can get so I can stand firm if we decide to totally reject the PTL heads and go for something else.

Here is a pic, maybe that will help with what i'm talking about.


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Old 10-27-2003, 09:09 PM
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CORE SHIFT

I do some custom cylinder heads from time to time, and one of my suppliers, (who's name I won't mention) has told me in the past that they have had some problems with Pro Topline heads having core shift problems and that they have to unbox every head they sell and check it on a fixture that they made just to verify that the heads they are selling are good. I would not use the heads you have under any circumstances. I am sure that if you call the company, you can get some relief. They are not in the business of selling faulty heads, and word of mouth is everything in the parts biz, I'm sure you can get a good set of heads to replace the ones that you have.
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Old 10-27-2003, 09:10 PM
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You still have the wrong intake gaskets. Get the right ones first because you know you are going to use an alumiunum intake. Check them against the heads. Also, the link for the newest picture didn't work. You're previous picture had the gaskets sitting low to begin with. You need to match the intake bolt holes in the head with the bolt holes on the gasket when comparing.

Performers have small ports compard to most aftermarket heads.

Last edited by lluciano77; 10-27-2003 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 10-27-2003, 09:17 PM
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The pic is fixed!

Yes, in that pic, the gasket is down about 20 or 30 thousands, but there are 2 bolts holding it in place.

But it makes NO difference if its the "right" or "wrong" gasket for the cast head/aluminum manifold combination. I'm using it only to show where the performer manifold will sit against that head.

BTW, I've used the stock blue fel pro gaskets on EVERY aluminum manifold i've bolted onto stock cast heads. Current is in my truck with 140,000 miles and no leaks, no problems.
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Old 10-27-2003, 09:30 PM
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If you have always used them how do you know you haven't had leaks this whole time? You have nothing to compare to. You could be loosing a couple inches of vacuum. The Fel-Pro stock gaskets don't compress enough. They also don't allow for the different expansion rates of cast iron and aluminum. Ask all the tech at the companies that make the aluminum intakes. Those gaskets are a big . I'm not trying to pop your balloon, but now would be a good time to start using the right gaskets.

Good luck with the heads. I hope you guys get the problem solved.
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Old 10-27-2003, 10:24 PM
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Ive installed a few sets of Topline heads they were a tamer set than the ones youre running though. Ive never had a leak problem Im going to look at the next one I do to see how close it is Ive been using the 1256 gaskets.
Anyways I think you need different gaskets too.


Theres quite a few gaskets to choose from, you need to measure the port size.
Felpro
part# port size
1204 1.23 x 1.99 blue
1256 1.23 x 1.99 printoseal
1205 1.28 x 2.09 printoseal
1206 1.31 x 2.21 printoseal
1207 1.38 x 2.28 printoseal
1209 1.38 x 2.38 printoseal
1244 1.25 x 1.90 to 1.40 2.30 trim to fit

Also Ive had to tap every blind bolt hole on every set Ive done because they dont tap them all the way to bottom you might run into the bolts bottoming out on the outer bolts by water passages.


Heres a picture to showing difference between the blue and printoseal gaskets that should fix your oil leak.
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Last edited by Greg Latvala; 10-27-2003 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 10-28-2003, 08:03 AM
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Are you sure the PTL heads are a 23' head?

The ports locations are good but the ports don't match up. I would send them back rather then fight with them. Too many people Iv'e heard them say they don't like PTL. But a few people who have what they wanted run them hard all day long. I think there tolerances are way off and quality control is poor.
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Old 10-28-2003, 09:22 AM
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Greg....Thanks for the gasket sizes and numbers. I just got back from the machine shop and he had a new set of World heads sitting on the bench. He's sending the PTL heads back.

The Worlds look light years superior to the PTLs. Ports are in the correct place and the performer manifold will seal up fine now.
Should have them ready to go by this afternoon. Hopefully this is the end of this mess, can hardly wait to see whats next! LOL
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Old 10-28-2003, 12:10 PM
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I would say that you must have a different set of heads than what you ordered. Have you tryed to set an intake on them to see if they are 23 degree as suggested. If the core shift is that bad, that is a little scary. Make sure and let us know how it turns out.

As for the intake gaskets, I dont know what this guy is getting at. I have changed or installed many aluminum intakes and have used everything from Felpro to parts store specials with no problems. If there was a vacuum leak, the engine would not idle properly, and would probably race at idle.

Chris
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Old 10-28-2003, 12:24 PM
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I just stuck an Edelbrock Performer intake on my 350 and their instructions explicitly say not to use the blue Fel-Pro gaskets because they don't compress properly to seal well.

I'm not saying they will or won't I'm just repeating what the little piece of paper that Edelbrock ships with their manifold says.

After all, enough RTV and duct tape you can seal anything...
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Old 10-28-2003, 12:33 PM
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Lostknight..

I saw that in some of their instructions too, BUT, if that was 100% true, then before the advent of the Felpro "printoseal" gaskets, then everything was no good! LOL

Guess all the aluminum intakes prior to that were installed wrong and leaked. Its like saying the only cam to use now is a roller cam and that flat tappet cams won't work.

Pretty soon the "printoseal" will be replaced with a metal layered silicone gasket and now the printoseal gasket will be junk!

Mark
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Old 10-28-2003, 12:43 PM
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Like I said. I was just repeating Edelbrocks position on the situation seeing as how lluciano77 was getting hung out to dry by every one.

My position is whatever works. After all hot-rods and rebuilding engines has always been about trying something non-comformist to see if it works better.

Good luck with your new heads. BTW what is your 400 going into?
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Old 10-28-2003, 03:15 PM
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Well, unfortunatley, its going into a '76 Chevy 3/4 ton 4X4. My son is building a kinda rock crawler/weekend warrior! LOL Wish it was going in an older Nova or Chevy II.
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Old 10-29-2003, 05:17 PM
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Well, the PTL heads are history!! Got a new set of comparable World heads. What a huge difference in quality! Might even get me a set for my 350!! LOL Anyone need some really nice '882's with stainless valves and positive seals?
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