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Old 04-23-2009, 06:05 PM
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opinion on flat tappet breakin procedure

I know there are lots of opinions on cam breakin etc but just want to get an opinion of the following (suggested by shop):

break in:

cam and lifters installed with comp cams installation lube
all surfaces lubed with WS2 (Titanium sulfide) dry lubricant
1/2 quart of lucas oil additive
rest 30W Rotella T (for ZDDP 1200 ppm zink 1100 ppm phosorous)

after break in:

valvoline 30W and 1/2 qt lucas oil treatment (no ZDDP additives or oil containing ZDDP ???; this is the part that concerns me)

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Old 04-23-2009, 06:42 PM
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With a flat tappet cam you have to have zddp additive every oil change no exceptions. There are no longer any oils with enough zddp to keep the cam and lifters safe. You can get some racing type oils that have zddp additive in them but they are way expensive. From what I have read on other posts Rotella oil no longer has enough zddp for flat tappet cams anymore. Comp cams offers a special kind of surface hardner too all there flat tappet cams to help with the issues but it costs more. Hope more people with post but I quit using flat tappet cams 5 years ago after hearing all this. Too me its worth it to save up money and go roller.
Eric
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:23 PM
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Been reading up on oil additives to replace the lowered ZDDP during break-in.

Also reading on the alternatives to additives at every oil change such as Amsoil and

http://www.cen-pe-co.com/Products/Oil%20Products.htm

Are you supposed to switch over to these oils after ring seating or right after cam break-in?

Does anyone have an actual link to the ZDDP content of any product or the API ratings of CJ-4, CI-4, CH-4?

Selecting the right oil is starting to hurt my head.


Thanks



Also found this link to(diesel) oil ratings, some going back to earlier engines when ZDDP content was probably higher. Does that mean these oils CF, CF-2, CF-4 and CG-4 have higher ZDDP content?


http://www.apicj-4.org/EngineOilGuide2006.pdf

Last edited by jtybt15; 04-23-2009 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:52 PM
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If you wait until after the break in to add the additive, the damage is allready done.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:02 PM
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Dont let these guidelines fool you, if you do follow what is reccomeneded your flat tappet can live a long life.

1. Use break in springs when breaking in cam ( remove innner if dual springs)
2. Use break in additive or oil such as brad penns green oil
3. Groove lifter bores if you want added insurance ( i did)
4. Use zddp additive for every oil change for added insurance.
5.Follow cam break in instructions that come with cam to a tee

If you do this your pretty much guranteed good results.

AND READ THIS http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ech/index.html

Btw im staring at a cam that has gone flat sitting by my computer right now
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:49 PM
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hmm see i have read and worried about this very thing over the years over and over. when i broke in the 305 engine in the 85 elky after having it bored .030 and putting a stock 350 cam in it i talked to the machine shop guy about this and he quote said " you read too much"

and told me to not worry about it

this came from a guy whos bene running his own machine shop in this town for decades now and ive never once heard a single thing bad about him, unlike the ppl that rn the napa auto parts store machine shop.

i used the red break in fluid gel stuff on the cam and lifters and we used whatever engine oil and its been doing fine since last fall when i assembled the engine and put it in the car

so really i dont know

but in the past i had always gone to chevy and gotten the EOS

and i was going to for this 305 engine too but when i went there they informed me they were out of supply indefinitely.

so.....

if it were my engine and i was building it purely for myself then well id have gone wit a 350 engine first of all, but used black moly paste and trtied to find something with zinc even with how seemingly impossible it is, especially in a small farming town area like here.

this makes my head hurt too.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robins44
Dont let these guidelines fool you, if you do follow what is reccomeneded your flat tappet can live a long life.

1. Use break in springs when breaking in cam ( remove innner if dual springs)
2. Use break in additive or oil such as brad penns green oil
3. Groove lifter bores if you want added insurance ( i did)
4. Use zddp additive for every oil change for added insurance.
5.Follow cam break in instructions that come with cam to a tee

If you do this your pretty much guranteed good results.

AND READ THIS http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ech/index.html

Btw im staring at a cam that has gone flat sitting by my computer right now

Hmmmmmmmm, wonder how that cam went flat sitting by his computer....
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:23 PM
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lol think your funny dont ya! No it went flat in 2004 due to a carb leaking down while it was at the body shop, and i didnt get to it till it was too late! Figured someone was going to say something about that, im doing a failure analysis project on it now for one of my classes.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:39 AM
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A little more reading of the Hot Rod link and comparing to the API oil rating link, If available, the diesel rated CF would be the best oil to use for flat tappet cams. It is rated for OFF-ROAD use which Hot Rod states is NOT suitable for cars with catalytic convertors, ostensibly because of the high ZDDP content which is detrimental to the convertors.


and also found this race break-in oil suitable for regular use. Good price!

http://www.saferacer.com/joe-gibbs-r...?productid=425

Couldn't find the weight.


AHHH!
Caterpillar CF rated diesel oil Looks high Zinc and Phosphorus

http://www.finning.ca/_downloads/sos...)_pehp1027.pdf


Need opinions on this one.

Last edited by jtybt15; 04-24-2009 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robins44
im doing a failure analysis project on it now for one of my classes.
Don't forget that pressures can exceed a quarter of a million pounds psi between the lifter and the camshaft- that's a place to start, at least.

AFA cam break-in recommendations- it's all been covered, but I would restate the obvious: That thick, sticky moly lube that's included w/some cams and is available separately- as well as all other thick cam lubes- goes on the cam lobes and foot of the lifter.

NOT on the push rod seat, NOT on the lifter body where it will become a hindrance to rotation of the lifter, especially if allowed to remain on the lifter for an extended length of time and it becomes set up and hardened. And not on the cam journals- oil is sufficient for those places.

When in doubt, follow the manufacturer's recommendations. (What a concept! )

EDIT- This last comment in re manufacturer's recommendations wasn't aimed specifically at y2k; rather it was a general comment to those looking for break-in info.

Last edited by cobalt327; 04-24-2009 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:29 AM
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Good info everyone thanks for posts.

Quote:
When in doubt, follow the manufacturer's recommendations. What a concept.
I need to clairfy a few things with the assembler, but I know he used the moly lube that came with the comp cam and lubed the appropriate places. Just not sure if the ZDDP level of the Rotella T 30W is sufficient for break in and may push that some sort of ZDDP additive (GM EOS,Crane, Comp cams, Lucas, ZDDplus etc) be used in additional at break in. I have been reading the ideal level is 1200-1400 ppm (too much also not good). Also I need to clarify the deal after break in (lack of ZDDP additives); I may have missed something since I just talked to him on the phone....going in person today.

Last edited by y2k600f4; 04-27-2009 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:44 AM
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I agree, I think we need a correlation between the percentage of Zinc/Phosphorus as advertized in diesel oils (.12 Zinc/.11 Phosphorus) as opposed to PPM(parts per million)

scroll down to 'Typical Test Data'

http://www.chevrondelo.com/deloperfo...Sellsheet4.pdf

Are these percentages sufficient for regular flat tappet oil use?
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:14 PM
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what to do with a flat tappet cam

first, pull the cam out of the engine, hold it high above your head, drop perfectly flat on a concrete floor, if it only broke into 2 pices, get out the 8 lb. sledge, and commence beating on it til it is in nice throwable size pieces.
then break down and buy a roller cam ( you know you want one anyway)
this will help ease the tension and confusion of breaking in a cam!
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:22 PM
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Would the Comp Cam break in additive be as sufficient as GM EOS?

Comp Cams
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku


GM E.O.S.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku


I'm just curious because the Comp Cams stuff is less expensive.
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Old 04-24-2009, 03:39 PM
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Valvoline Specialty racing oil, 20w-50 has a ZDDP ingredient of 1.142% which is the highest I've found yet but it's not directly comparable to a PPM.
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