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Old 06-19-2008, 06:44 PM
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Opinions on brake setup please.....

Will some of you brake gurus give me an opinion on this setup.

4 wheel manual drums.

12"x2" up front and 11"x2 1/4" rear

Front wheel cylinders have a 1" bore. Rears have a 15/16" bore

Master cylinder has a 1 1/8" bore.

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Last edited by Centerline; 06-19-2008 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:33 PM
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I'm thinking that the master cylinder is too big. Unless you have a 7 or 8 to1 pedal ratio.

1 1/8" is better suited for disc or big wheel cylinders.

I'd be using a 1" master with those wheel cylinders.


Later, mikey
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:40 PM
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I'm more or less locked in to that master cylinder. Its the 60-62 Chevy pickup dual brake/clutch master that works with my Ansen peddles, (same one thats on the American Graffiti Coupe). The front wheel cylinders are the stock rear wheel cylinders for the 62 pickup and the rears are stock Ford 9".

I'll be doing some more calculations tomorrow as far as fluid requirements. I know the cubic inches of fluid required by the wheel cylinders but I won't get the master till tomorrow to measure its stroke.

Given that the stock wheel cylinders used with that master cylinder were 1.125 in the front and 1.0 in the rear I'm just wondering what effect going down slightly on the wheel cylinder size will have on peddle feel and brake effectiveness. I can always install larger wheel cylinders if I have to.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:59 PM
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I thought that looked like truck stuff, but the front wheel cylinder size was the weirdo. ..Go up to 1 1/8 on the front and the I think the proportions will be closer to right..Leave the rear wheel cylinders alone and you'll never worry about rear lockup...


Right now, I think that unless you have a numerically high pedal ratio, (like the truck probably had), your pedal will be pretty stiff. Stiff pedal might be tolerable in a light car...and space might not allow a full stroke with a high ratio like that.

Are those brakes self energizing? That would help too.


Check out an old chiltons car manual, like the ones that list cars from the '60s...usually in the GM cars sections, they give brake system specs, with drum sizes, as well as wheel cylinder and master cylinder sizes...it's a pretty good guideline for sizing stuff.


I'll see if I can scan a page or two to show you.


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Old 06-20-2008, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
...........Are those brakes self energizing? That would help too.
The front brakes consist of '75 Chevy Caprice (Police Package) 12"x2" rear drum hardware adapted to the stock 37-48 Ford front backing plates. They use stock Ford 12" drums and the whole setup is self-energizing. Rears are stock Ford early 80's 11" drums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
...........Check out an old chiltons car manual, like the ones that list cars from the '60s...usually in the GM cars sections, they give brake system specs, with drum sizes, as well as wheel cylinder and master cylinder sizes...it's a pretty good guideline for sizing stuff.


I'll see if I can scan a page or two to show you.


Later, mikey
I'm using an older "How to build Hot Rods" book from the early '80s that gives all the formulas for figuring out the fluid dynamics but don't have access to a Chilton's thats that old. I'll check to see what the pedal ratio is but it wouldn't surprise me if it is pretty high given that this Ansen setup is designed for that particular master cylinder. Here's a drawing of the pedal/MC setup. You can tell its quite old given the prices quoted. The MC now goes for just under $80 at NAPA (providing they can find one). I was lucky and they just happened to have one in their local warehouse. The pedals cost me $155.


Last edited by Centerline; 06-20-2008 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 06-21-2008, 05:49 AM
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I have not owned an Ansen pedal setup in 25 years, but as I recall, the ratio was at the high end.

Plus you need to compare the car weight of your 32 and the donors of the brake parts which were lots heavier. The wide rear tires & diameter would likely prevent rear lockup? (centrifical force) I'd try it.

If you put too much brake cyl bore on the front with skinny tires,( despite the hemi ), I suppose the fronts could lock on damp roads.

JMO, there are too many variables to get it engineered on paper......plus it will take some serious miles to get all 8 shoes seated 100% for the final feel. That I am sure of.

I have an inline Direct Connection adjustable valve that I will be installing, just in case..

Edit...plus the pic you show; the pedal ratio IS adjustable
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F&J
I have not owned an Ansen pedal setup in 25 years, but as I recall, the ratio was at the high end.

Plus you need to compare the car weight of your 32 and the donors of the brake parts which were lots heavier. The wide rear tires & diameter would likely prevent rear lockup? (centrifical force) I'd try it.

If you put too much brake cyl bore on the front with skinny tires,( despite the hemi ), I suppose the fronts could lock on damp roads.

JMO, there are too many variables to get it engineered on paper......plus it will take some serious miles to get all 8 shoes seated 100% for the final feel. That I am sure of.

I have an inline Direct Connection adjustable valve that I will be installing, just in case..

Edit...plus the pic you show; the pedal ratio IS adjustable
Not sure if mine has the extra hole but that's easy enough to take care of if I need it. Although Ansen quit making these eons ago they are being made again by another company "supposedly" exactly like the ones that Ansen made. Mine is the repo version. "Real" Ansen pedal assemblies go for good money on e-bay, when they show up.

I'm sure it will take some tinkering once it's on the road to get the entire system sorted out. The good thing is that its easy and cheap to swap front wheel cylinders if I need to go bigger or smaller.
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