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Old 04-30-2006, 07:02 AM
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Opinions on new guns...need to convert

When I was like 13-14yrs old I was buggin dad sayin "when do I get to paint?" I had already been able to mix filler, primer, spray primer, and even disassemble and re-assemble his DeVilbiss type MBC with no problems. I was exposed to this since the tender age of 10. So on that day he hands me the gun and says "Here...don't phukk it up." (pardon the spelling, makin a point). Since then, the summer of '71, I've been involved in the crafts that make up this section of the board. Starting with the glory days of lacquers and on through the great days of DAU82, and numerous superior finishes those old MBCs were always good to me. Growing in the craft I stepped up to one of DeVilbiss' 1st HVLPs, and while the model# escapes me I'll describe it as a "pressure cup" gun. It works fairly well, still feeling like my old friends but putting it on the panel like the latest stuff is intended. I now have a Matco/Redline HVLP gravity to get used to that and it's been OK for a few years and I'm down with that cup up top now. So here's the thing. I truely hate these, what I call, 4 to 1 clears but there's no escape. I seem to have a problem with the final finish being smooth and slick. I know quite well how to set a gun, get a finish, mix the product, etc. But in the end I'm either dissatisfied with the "peel" content (too much), or the last coat wants to fall off. The guys I work with say I need a newer gun. Something more compatible with the current mat'l. I keep hearing SATA and perhaps DeVilbiss "Millenium"? These are in the 'hood of like $4-500. Not that I'm cheap but I'd hate to go through a grand or more worth of guns to get what I need.


I'm sure that I'm not the only oldgreybastard that paints on this board. So I'd like to hear what has worked for the rest of you "experienced" artisans. Thanx for readin the ramble.

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Old 04-30-2006, 08:05 AM
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If you can get your hands on a Geo FX..try that one..I think you may like it..Of course expect a bit of a "learning curve" with any new gun that you may wind up with..

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Old 04-30-2006, 08:20 AM
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The high solid clears of today need a gun that really atomizes, otherwise the material gets applied too thick leading to urethane peel and runs if the painter tries to wet the panel down when it's going on thick. That's my opinion and others might disagree. SATA makes some good guns but IWATA's LPH-400 beats them hands down IMO. I know all about the uncomfortable switch from siphon feed design to gravity feed- for years I sprayed with JGA-502's and making the switch to GF was a tough one for me-I fought it all the way but would never go back.
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Old 04-30-2006, 09:17 AM
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It's a TOUGH decsion for SURE. We each have what I call,stay with me here hehe, a "comfort" feeling,zone,whatever you want to call it with a tool. It's our "favorite" cause it feels right,works great,and for some strange reason, we just prefer it.
Finding a paint gun is this way IMO and you'll have to try out several to find yours. Get some of the guys to let you try out their Sata,DeVilbiss,etc and get a feel for each. Just buying a gun no matter what the recommendation or who it's from is still a guess and can get expensive real quick as you well know.
I'm with bob on the Iwata LPH-400, It is a great gun and it's actually cheaper than the top line Sata's. It's without a doubt,the lightest gun I've ever handled. The transfer effiency is unbelievable even with a 1.3 tip. You can change tip sets without breaking the bank and you can have a great base gun for metallics/pearls with just an air cap change. Sprays with the lowest PSI of ANY gun and still gives you a solid 10" fan,4" off the panel. Try that with any other gun. I was tempted to get a 2000 Sata which is a great gun, I was concerned however with anything electronic and involving liquids plus a battery.Then you have to send it in to get the battery replaced. Don't think so. So after actually seeing what the Iwata could do at a seminar was convinced it was the one. After recieving it and pulling it out of the box,the first time I held it,I just knew this was the one..
My first "good" gun was a DeVilbiss FLG-2 Finishline HVLP and IMO is still one of the best base guns ever but it just didn't do a good job with clear so I went looking.
I picked up the new SataJet 90-2 kinda on a whim and it's a really nice gun but I personally just have not felt "comfortable" using it. It's large,kinda bulky and still sprays at 45# and makes a lot of waste IMO so I use it for times when nothing else seems to be working for me and it seems to pull me out which is great but then I realize,I just used a qt. of paint and I didn't really figure on that.Job done but at a price.
I honestly have not used any of DeVilbliss's high end guns and IMO they are as good as most. D never has made "junk" and if it's and "American" thing, Would be a good choice.
Forget the "new" MAC TOOL gun, It's a Sharpe and a real POS.

My advice is like I said, Try to get your hands on as many as possiable for a test drive and trust your feel.
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Old 04-30-2006, 09:47 AM
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believe me , an old dog with an iwata can bark again . i tried just about every new gun out there before i replaced my old guns. my guns are the most important tool in the booth so i dont buy or use cheap guns.
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:41 PM
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Hey fellas, this is making sense to me. I bought the Matco gun because it was cheap and a good "utility" piece to get used to that cup on top. $80 out the door and it really does a decent job but has no volume...like 20oz give or take. I couldn't imagine an O/A with it. I'm pretty well interested in the Iwata. But geez, the name even sounds expensive. Who cares if it does the job though huh? Thanx so far...anyone else?
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Old 05-01-2006, 11:59 AM
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ANY of the top end guns are gonna be close to 4 Franklins so just expect that. Closer to 6 if your talking Sata unless you got "connections" which I'm sure you have so get Jewish with them and haggle out a good deal.
I got my LPH for 350'ish so don't go buying one for no 400 or more, hell I'll get you one and send it to ya if need be.
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER
and it really does a decent job but has no volume...like 20oz give or take.
Why not get one of those big aluminum cups for it, you can get them from Harbor Freight.

Vince
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Old 05-01-2006, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee4Me
ANY of the top end guns are gonna be close to 4 Franklins so just expect that. Closer to 6 if your talking Sata unless you got "connections" which I'm sure you have so get Jewish with them and haggle out a good deal.
I got my LPH for 350'ish so don't go buying one for no 400 or more, hell I'll get you one and send it to ya if need be.

Many thanx man. I appreciate the input. Did a little reasearch on that model...google, ebay, etc. Yeah like just under $400 and an extra buck for an extra tip. I'm thinkin a 1.4 and a 1.3 ought to do all I need. The next step is to get a demo perhaps. I don't know if my PPG supplier can get it done but I'm prety confident in the gun.





"I'm with bob on the Iwata LPH-400, It is a great gun and it's actually cheaper than the top line Sata's. It's without a doubt,the lightest gun I've ever handled. The transfer effiency is unbelievable even with a 1.3 tip."


The lightness you express has me interested. I was handed a 3M gun set to try out (yes, 3M ) and that freakin thing is heavy. About $500 and what set me against it besides the weight is how long will they be producing/selling those guns and what about service parts. Well you all have been very helpful in this topic and I really appreciate that.



" Why not get one of those big aluminum cups for it, you can get them from Harbor Freight."


While I agree that I can do that this particular gun is not the ideal tool for top flight show quality finishing. The spray volume is good but not the cup. I see that gun doing maybe frame work or quickie cut-ins or even as a sealer/primer gun. I guess I should also point out that we don't work in a "normal" body shop environment. We're doing prototype and hot rod stuff for our OEM and Motorsports divisions. All of us have the luxury of being able to "shine" on different tasks from time to time. Being the boss and senior of the group I now feel a need to get "caught up" so to speak with current top line items. Once again I truely appreciate your inputs. Now to get my hands on that Iwata and see how it feels
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:14 PM
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One or 2 other things,
Iwata's 1.3 will put out as much as Sata's 1.4 IMO Bob will concour on this as well but if you can swing the extra nozzle,1.4, no needle change but you may have to get both,their kinda stingy about breaking a set, get it.

Get the LVB base coat air cap,it's about 75-100 depending but is the "must have" option with an LPH if you do much metallic or pearl base.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:39 AM
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I use a 1.3 in my Iwata- like Bee said it puts out as much material as a 1.4 in other guns. My gun came with a 1.4 and it sprayed really good with that but worked even better for me with the 1.3 tip. The needle is interchangeable and works with both fluid tips, fluid tips run about $50. I haven't tried the basecoat aircap yet. I use the Iwata for clear and singlestage applications and use my Sata and other guns for basecoat.

I seen the 3M gun but never tried it, sticker shock to the extreme IMO and yeah I'd be woried about long term part availability- I see nobody using them in the shops I visit.


Find an Iwata dealer in your area and explain you want to try a demo gun. After pulling the trigger for a few minutes on a demo I borrowed I knew I had to have one. The gun allows you to put high solid clears on thin and smooth. I upped my temperature range on the reducers I use just because the clear is now going on thinner and flashing faster-the way it should be.
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