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Opinions on purchasing this 1923 t-bucket roadster please

8K views 29 replies 14 participants last post by  kmrumedy 
#1 ·
Hi Guys,

Second time starting new thread as I search for a hotrod project. Need your opinions please. I have been reading this forum to educate myself on hot rodding and t-buckets. My only experience working on cars is with 64-73 Mopars. I am currently working on a 64 Plymouth that I feel is more of a hot rod than I guess a traditional muscle car build and I am having a blast. I don't have to worry about the Mopar purists rules and unwarranted comments. I find it quite liberating and free to build what I like. It has been awesome and most of Mopar guys love the build and help me out which is great.

Thus....my interest is turning to maybe dipping my toe into a hot rod project. I am hoping find one that is mostly built, someone else's money in it, and I can start and learn on BUT I can get out of with as little damage to my pocket book in the case I get in over my head ( been there, done that, bought several t- shirts.).

This time I found a mostly done t-bucket and thought it might be a good candidate to work on as I learn. I found one at a good price ( by Canadian standards anyway) but it is a 14 hour round trip for me so I can't see it but will try to have a local check it out for me. So I was wondering if you experienced guys could have a look at the details I have on the car and these pictures and give me your opinions if you think it is a good buy or a good start. Lot of things I would like to change but driving car while I can make changes.

Here is some stuff I can tell you about the car. 1923 t- bucket. It is a fiberglass body ,new square tube frame . The front rad shell and windshield is original or that is what alot of people have told me. Also it has the original ownership with the 1923 vin # is suppose to be very valuable , The rock bottom cash deal this week will be $7600. The appraisal that was done in May 2014 has it at $11,000. The frame was made in a welding shop in London ,Ont .the rear diff is a 8.8 ford mustang (posi) rebuilt ,the engine I was told was rebuilt by an older guy that had worked for Ford, retired and started to build the car . So the engine is a older 302 and has a C6 automatic tran's that had been rebuilt also .The front end is a mustang 2 that has been set up with disc brakes, all new .front and rear bolt pattern is 5x4.5 ,rear brakes has everything new and it's drum on the rear . new alum rad . It has a alum fuel cell in the rear with elec fuel pump . The headers are new patriot with small inserts in the chrome pipes 3inch . New chrome engine oil pan , trans pan and rear diff cover . The valve covers and air breather are older chrome . New alum water pump all the wiring is new ,lights are new . Tilt steering and it has weldwood master cly for the brakes . Rear tires are mickey thompson 33x21.5x15 on weld racing wheel 15x17 ,front are also mickey on americian racing wheels . No power steering.

Thoughts or comments at $7600?

Here are the all the pics I have... Thanks and cheers! John



























 
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#3 ·
Asking too much at $7600 IMO. To much at $7600 American anyway

Grill shell and radiator mounted too high, horrible looking front suspension (MII should only be used on enclosed, fendered rods where it can't be seen, not out in the open unless it is all tubular aftermarket arms and chromed w/coil-over shocks), front tires and wheels too wide, radial front tire with bias rear is handling nightmare, wheel style mismatch, too much cheesy aluminum diamond plate being used, cheap generic truckstop sourced tail lights, black headers with chrome sidepipes?!?, awful dash, awful awful front fenders.

Not a very well thought-out build IMO, ....but it is clean, driveline is solid parts choices.

Almost like someone dove into CraigList or Ebay, and didn't stop swimming until they came out the other side with enough cheap deals to complete a car, whether anything matched or not....that's my take on it...maybe $5000 knowing you will have to sell off/change 1/3 of it to have it look good.
 
#5 ·
I'd sure change those tail lights before anyone else saw them! Other than that, I like it. I'd rather have MII front end than ANYTHING built around a solid axle. (even if the MII is exposed!) (Just my own opinion, but then again, I'm not world famous for considering appearance to be anywhere in the top 100 factors I ever consider in building/owning a car)

If you can live with the dash as it is (for a while at least), then I don't see any objections.

If you are gonna be a trophy hunter, then this one has some "issues" to be addressed as others have noted (the Diamond plate - what's that all about?)

Around here, that'd be "asking $10.0".
 
#6 ·
Things planning to change over next 12-18 months... (Sell off old parts while buying new stuff)

Replace All diamond plate
Change dash
Lower/drop grill shell and radiator ( is that doable?). Add hood assembly
Change Wheel/tires
Back light assembly

Eventually would like it to look something like this. Does this have good bones to do it?

 
#7 ·
Front definitely won't ever look that clean with the MII, the steering rack is RIGHT behind that front piece of diamond plate "camouflage".

Those are Model A grill shells on both, not T-bucket. At least the last one is an A shell, first post car might be later T

Enclosed nose car has I-beam front suspension.
 
#8 ·
Man, you guys know your stuff!

This is great info. Thank you so much. I have been trying to learn the chassis and front suspension choices on these builds but I haven't seen enough to know what I am looking at and the implications of each builders direction.

Your info is helping a lot.
 
#10 ·
Another thought in passing.....
I see you are from Montreal, and the car is in Ontario

(Different laws, vehicle requirements, etc)

I have NO idea whatsoever if a fenderless car can be registered in Quebec - you MAY have to add fenders once you get it home - you should check into that.

My (under construction) 28 Model A coupe is to be finished as a Resto-rod (Full fendered, stock appearance etc), which (somewhat) hides the MII I am using - Fenderless is illegal here in BC- although I see quite a few around on the street!

However, when "importing" from a different jurisdiction, an inspection is often required to register it - so you maybe wanna check into that before pulling out a checkbook
 
#14 ·
If your still interested first have him take a picture of the registration so you can verify it to have a clear title. Dave brought up a very good point about legalities between Providences check that out. Contact the owner and tell him you'd like to inspect the vehicle and make a offer but his asking price is out of your budget. If he still responds favorably get on a airplane and go and look at the car. Take cash, separating it on your person. Look at the car and nit pick it to death but don't insult him. If you still want it ask him with a heavy sigh, what is the lowest price he'll take. Offer him $500 less then negotiate the rest.
Have fun driving it home.

BB :thumbup::thumbup:

If you buy it don't forget to contact your insurance guy.
 
#17 ·
As has been said, you couldn't build from scratch what's there for $7600. I would much rather have the MII front on the car than a straight axle and wouldn't care two hoots what someone else thinks about how it looks. I would only be concerned about how it looks to me. Maybe some of you guys don't remember what a straight axle drives like compared to an IFS, but I do and I don't want any more of it. If the car is a little stiff with those springs in it, there's a fix for that.
Mustang II Front End Coils - EATON Detroit Spring

The diamond plate would have to go, along with that abortion of a radiator shell. Eric's comment about "cheap generic truckstop sourced tail lights" has me still laughing.

Here's a chopped '32 shell....
http://stingershotrodshop1927fordroadster.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/135_0411_indy_05_z1.jpg
http://www.airbum.com/NeatShtpix/RoadsterGrillMntdNoInsertSM.jpg
http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/1930-ford-sport-coupe-hot-rod-5.jpg

A '28 A shell....
http://www.tbucketplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Ben-Griffin-T-Bucket-02.jpg
http://www.hotrodsforsale.com/78/im...rat_rod_hot_rod_roadster-1343352494-544-e.jpg

A '23 T shell...this might come closer to fitting between the control arms.....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/T-Bucket.jpg
http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/01/LivelySetDodgeRPU_01_1000.jpg
http://images.classiccars.com/classifieds/117969_1899454_1923_Ford_Hot+Rod.jpg

I'd pull the headlights back to even with the radiator shell, they're too far forward.

Other than that, if I wanted a roadster, I'd shell out the green for this one.
 
#19 · (Edited)
If you're looking to learn,speedway motors sells a nice,basic t-bucket kit pretty reasonably.:thumbup:tom
DANGER! DANGER, Will Robinson! :D

You cannot import a 'glass car or kit car into Canada. Canadian Safety laws do not allow for kit cars to come in. (I have been told - by not always 100% reliable sources - that there is a provision that somehow has a loophole if the body, chassis and suspension are all from different manufacturers, imported separately and then assembled here, but grabbing a "100% complete" kit from Speedway, or any other kit car maker has a very real potential for you to be out a lotta $$$$)

Also - do NOT even dream about buying an already-assembled 'glass or "kit" car in the US, :nono: unless you are prepared to have it subjected to the full battery of crash tests. If you are bringing in a '34 Ford, it has to actually BE a '34 Ford - even if modified all to heck, but unless it has a '34 Ford title, backed up by being an all-steel '34 Ford (with the correct VIN) , you may wind up with it sitting in impound for 90 Days (pending being brought into compliance with Canadian Safety laws - which are FAR more rigid than any US laws) and then being destroyed. :(

Let's not get into how my buddy had this lesson impressed upon him!

I suspect that the T-bucket you are looking at has a locally-made chassis, and maybe even a Canadian-made body. Therefore no-one had to try to import an Non-conforming CAR.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Hi guys,

Thank you so much for the posts and helping out. I am pretty familiar with the import rules and regulations for both provincial and importing from the US. I have imported a number of old cars. Dave is correct. We are not allowed to import entire kits unless we do it in pieces. An already built kit is a big no no. There are ways around it but the legality of it is a " grey" area and not worth the risk in my opinion. Sounds like Dave's friend find that out the hard way which is very unfortunate.

In the case of the car listed in this post, the one thing it has going for it and what attracted me is it has an original VIN number tied to the ownership of the car. This makes it very easy to register the car in my province and it makes it easy to sell if I want out. Still has to pass inspection in terms of safety, lights working etc. but other than that it is a breeze. Once you past safety you can pull off the Home Depot traffic lights! ( might even post a vid of doing burnout on them!)

To import the car into Canada, like many states, we need a title. The title must list the car as the original year and have a VIN number we can register. We can license cars as " modified" within country but there are many hoops we have to go through.

So the two things I would like to nail down it:

1. Is this car a good foundation to build upon? Does it have good bones. I.e. is it worth putting in some money and making changes to it?

2. Can I make the changes I want without investing big dollars? My thinking on this car is with that front end, can I lower or change that darn radiator shell to put in full hood? What would be the approximate cost? Like some of the pictures that Techinspector1 posted.
 
#26 ·
You can't lower the radiator where she is now sitting,, It's on top the cross member, The only way will be to move it forward in front of the rack and cross member.. But it may look a little funny to far out front...
 
#21 ·
The homemade frame would be my concern both for passing a safety inspection and being straight and square.

Other parts to change or eliminate have already been mentioned so I'll skip most except the MII suspension. That would have to get canned in favor of a tubular setup with coil-overs, not only for the aesthetics but ride. I would use the wide lower arm also and lose the radius rod. That would clean up the front a lot along with a chrome R&P to look good while eliminating the diamond plate shield.

As for price, I would think it would bring the asking easily, as long as everything there is quality built. As you mention, the original tag and title are probably worth half the price...;)
 
#22 ·
Thank you. This helps a lot. Again, I'll plead inexperience on this next question. Are there built front end tubular kits to replace a MII suspension? I guess with custom frame it would leave some questions till you can see it up close. I am learning to weld but have no fabrication skills.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Here is how I would look at this.

Anything that are unknowns in terms of fit, finish or quality; I generally assume I need to replace. For this I usually plan on brakes, brake lines, fuel lines, fuel pump, battery, being junk. For this car specifically; Id also consider the frame and front suspension unusable. This is because you have such a distance to cover, and we're not familiar with the original builders capabilities. In that regard, its a simple square tube ladder chassis; and you can reuse the underpinnings and take measurements to build a frame fairly easily.
So if you think $7000 is good, minus those parts; so be it. I would not offer 7600 personally, unless he is going to move the car, or you KNOW you have a savvy person you trust to inspect these things. If you pay 7600 and the frame is cattywampus, and you have to hire a fab shop because his car isnt built to standard dimensions; it could easily be another grand in the frame/ front suspension if you can't do the work yourself.
 
#28 ·
home built T

A few years ago I stopped by to see a guy I used to work with and his two sons were still in high school. They had just traded for a T bucket project some other kids had started in school shop. I looked at it and said the frame was a little crooked and said I could put a jack on it and try to straighten it. ..The welds BROKE with not much pressure. They ended up cutting up the frame. and eventually I ended up with the body.
 
#29 · (Edited)
. X 3...

. first car looks like a bunch of mismatched parts just piled together... truck stop taillights upside down... front tires and body/frame too high because headers would hang too low... can't let headers design your car...

. 2nd car looks ungainly and really old parts... safety concerns...

. I'd let someone else enjoy them... rather start with all fresh parts than those...

. There's plenty of cars out there and if you can flash some cash around this time of year you can prolly pick up something really nice... doesn't have to look 'finished', just a good basic intelligent foundation... first car is finished, but the beginning wasn't done well...
 
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