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1981zapper 10-10-2012 11:29 AM

Options On SBC
 
i'm looking to build a small Block Chevy for my 1981 Camaro, i was going to put a small block 327 in it but i really thought about it and want something with some torque, its a heavy car, i'm leaning towards building a SBC 400, i have tracked down a 400 STD bore 509 block 2 bolt main, i was looking at going with a Scat Engine Rotating Assembly, i did some research and its better to go with a Internal Balance Engine, This was the kit i was looking at

SCAT Engine Components 1-41305BI - Scat Engine Rotating Assemblies - Overview - SummitRacing.com

i already have a Howards Hyd Roller cam & lifter kit, Edelbrock 64CC Aluminum heads, Fel-Pro Performance Full Engine Gasket Sets,

What do you guy's think? should i build a 350 or a 383 or 400

my87Z 10-10-2012 11:56 AM

to me that all depends on what you are trying to do with the car. If you are trying to make a street/strip car with over 500hp then I would either go with the 383 or 400 and internally balanced. But if all you want is a nice "quick" cruiser with say 410-460hp then I would say just build the 383 with an externally balanced rotating assy. to make in the low to mid 400hp range you dont need to turn a 383 up past about 5500-6000 rpm so therefor I dont see the need for an interally balanced rotating assembly.

cdminter59 10-10-2012 11:59 AM

Options On SBC
 
Go with the 400 small block. It is always better to have cubic inches.

Mr. P-Body 10-10-2012 01:06 PM

An old hotrodder once said "There's no replacement for displacement!" If you must run a small block in such a large car, the 400 will make the most torque and is therefore the logical choice. Eagle makes a "412" kit that is just great. I wouldn't bore it more than .030". Increasing the stroke a little won't hurt. Be certain it's honed with plates and the guy knows what he's doing. 400 bores are pretty thin and can be an adventure to get "round and straight". 3.75" strokes "like" 6" rods. Avoid cast crankshafts except genuine Chevrolet.

Your cooling system is paramount. 400s generate a lot of heat and it needs to be removed quickly. An external oil cooler helps, too. Don't scrimp on the radiator et al... Good fans, etc.

You can easily make 400-450 HP AND lb. ft. with a 400 with a reasonable idle quality, vacuum and low-end response, all necessary for a good performing street engine, especially in a 3,600 lb. car.

Jim

techinspector1 10-10-2012 02:20 PM

With a heavy street-driven vehicle, you will want tons of torque, not necessarily a lot of hp. Here's a recipe that I worked up on the DynoSim software a couple of years ago that may be of interest.....this is a pump gas-friendly build.....

400 block bored 0.030" and zero decked to the piston crowns, align-honed or align-bored main bearing bore.
The stack of parts used in this build will total 9.008" (piston 1.433", crank radius 1.875", rod 5.700"), so cut the block deck height to 9.008" for a zero piston deck height. Using a 0.039" head gasket thickness will yield a 0.039" squish. Use only a gasket that is designed for a 400 block, as the gasket MUST have steam holes to match up with the steam holes in the block. Here's an example....
Fel-Pro Q1014 - Fel-Pro Performance Head Gaskets - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Scat #9-400-3750-5700 cast steel Pro Comp crankshaft:
Scat Forged I-beam 5.7" rods:
SCAT Engine Components 25700P - Scat Pro Stock I-Beam Connecting Rods - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Please read Iskenderian's Tech Tip 2005 here....
ISKY Racing Cams - Do It Right. Race with the Legend. Camshafts, Connecting Rods, Valve Springs, Lifters
6" rods will push the piston pin up into the oil ring land, adding complexity that you don't need.
Keith Black #UEM-KB168-030 hypereutectic pistons 22cc dish to make 9.8:1 static compression ratio with 64cc chambers:
Keith Black/KB Pistons KB168-030 - Keith Black KB Performance Pistons - Overview - SummitRacing.com
CompCams #CCA-12-430-8 retro-fit hydraulic roller cam installed 2 degrees retarded:
COMP Cams 12-430-8 - COMP Cams Magnum Retrofit Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Howard's retro-fit hydraulic roller lifters:
Howards Cams 91164N - Howards Cams Street Series Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Lifters - Overview - SummitRacing.com
CompCams #CCA-200 thrust button:
COMP Cams 200 - COMP Cams Cam Buttons - Overview - SummitRacing.com
CompCams #CCA-201 wear plate:
COMP Cams 201 - COMP Cams Thrust Bearings and Wear Plates - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Edelbrock #EDL-7101 RPM intake manifold:
Edelbrock 7101 - Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifolds - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Dart Iron Eagle Platinum 215 cast iron heads #DRT-10521123P: (price shown is for one head). Have Dart drill the heads for steam holes before they ship them to you or do it yourself before assembly.
Technical Articles at Greg's Engine & Machine
Dart 10521123P - Dart Iron Eagle Platinum Cylinder Heads - Overview - SummitRacing.com
750 CFM, vacuum secondaries, manual choke carburetor of your choice. I might be tempted here to change the intake to a spread bore like this one....
Edelbrock 7104 - Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifolds - Overview - SummitRacing.com
and run a Cliff Ruggles tuned Quadrajet....
Cliffs High Performance Quadrajets :: Qjet Carburetor Rebuild Kits, Parts, Quadrajet Rebuilding, Quadrajet Parts, Bushing Kits, Carb Tuning
Air filter base and lid to house 14" x 4" paper element. The motor MUST be able to breathe. Snag the correct length stud and a wing nut from your local Ace Hardware. OK to stack two 14" x 2" filters.
Long-tube, tuned headers, 1 3/4" primaries. Use an "X" or "H" pipe before the mufflers.
RPM HP TQ
2000 154 405
2500 195 410
3000 250 438
3500 319 479
4000 386 507
4500 446 521
5000 486 511
5500 511 488
6000 515 451
6500 490 396
Get on the phone with Dart and counsel with them about the initial, centrifugal and vacuum ignition timing for this combo. Oh, and I absolutely agree with Mr. P-Body about the cooling system.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...cooling_system

1981zapper 10-10-2012 06:33 PM

I was told to go Internal Balanced because the external Balanced had some problems with lots of stress on the crank snout and resulting to cracking the snout, I just want something for the street, Iím not looking to make all the HP and TQ out there, when I do the compression calculator Iím getting 9.75:1 this will this motor be able to run on 91 Octane?

Specs:

- Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold #37011
- Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads # 608919 (64 CC)
- Howards Cams Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Cam (Lift 225 int./231 exh Duration @ .50 225 int./231 exh)
- Professional Products SFI PowerForce Plus Harmonic #90000

Scat Engine Rotating Assembly kit # 1-41305BI
- Scat Forged 4340 steel Crank
- Scat I-Beam Forged 4340 steel Rods (5.7 )
- Forged aluminum Floating Dish, with two valve Pistons (+21.00cc)
- Rings
- Rod Bearings

ap72 10-10-2012 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1981zapper (Post 1598080)
I was told to go Internal Balanced because the external Balanced had some problems with lots of stress on the crank snout and resulting to cracking the snout, I just want something for the street, Iím not looking to make all the HP and TQ out there, when I do the compression calculator Iím getting 9.75:1 this will this motor be able to run on 91 Octane?

Specs:

- Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold #37011
- Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads # 608919 (64 CC)
- Howards Cams Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Cam (Lift 225 int./231 exh Duration @ .50 225 int./231 exh)
- Professional Products SFI PowerForce Plus Harmonic #90000

Scat Engine Rotating Assembly kit # 1-41305BI
- Scat Forged 4340 steel Crank
- Scat I-Beam Forged 4340 steel Rods (5.7 )
- Forged aluminum Floating Dish, with two valve Pistons (+21.00cc)
- Rings
- Rod Bearings

That balancer will fly apart, they're known POS
The heads really arent that great for the money IMO
Hyper pistons will work just fine on the street.
A cast crank will work just fine


You have way too much money spent on the wrong parts and not enough on the right parts.


FWIW you can get over 400hp with a stock 350 with heads, cam, intake, and headers, a very mild and driveable 400hp too.

1981zapper 10-10-2012 06:41 PM

will these head gaskets work with Aluminum Heads

Fel-Pro Q8364PT - Fel-Pro Head Gaskets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

vinniekq2 10-10-2012 08:49 PM

put the car on a diet. bigger engine is ok.decent cam,,,Im not a big fan of rpm heads though they do work fair,,aluminum heads help the weight problem.sounds like a fun build,good luck.

1981zapper 10-10-2012 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ap72 (Post 1598083)
That balancer will fly apart, they're known POS
The heads really arent that great for the money IMO
Hyper pistons will work just fine on the street.
A cast crank will work just fine


You have way too much money spent on the wrong parts and not enough on the right parts.


FWIW you can get over 400hp with a stock 350 with heads, cam, intake, and headers, a very mild and driveable 400hp too.


I already have the Heads and Balancer since i was going to build a 327

Mr. P-Body 10-11-2012 03:15 PM

The heads are fine for 400 HP. They're not bad "out of the box". You might want to consider better valves and springs. If using a mild hydraulic cam, they'll be fine.

100% agreed, DUMP the balancer! 2 Chevys, one Pontiac and Ford, all "bye-bye". Pioneer offers a very good SFI balancer for reasonable money, made in Australia, not China.

I say again, for the heavy car, build the 400... (:-

Jim

ap72 10-11-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1981zapper (Post 1598184)
I already have the Heads and Balancer since i was going to build a 327

Then you need to either sell or throw away the balancer. the heads will work fine, there's just better options for the money IMO, if you already have them though run them.

cdminter59 10-13-2012 03:30 PM

Options on SBC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1981zapper (Post 1598084)
will these head gaskets work with Aluminum Heads

Fel-Pro Q8364PT - Fel-Pro Head Gaskets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

These Fel-pro copper wire ring head gaskets are excellent for aluminum heads. Copper will not brinell aluminum heads, and these Fel-Pro gaskets also offer superior heat dissipation from combustion hot spots. Fel Pro 1004 Fel-Pro Wire Ring Cylinder Head Gaskets

F-BIRD'88 10-13-2012 09:05 PM

If you have a 327 to work with, supercharge it. You will have a ton of torque.
A low compression street roots supercharged 327 is very basic easy to build and will GLH.
Eats all 383's and most 400's.

You have the right car for it and will really like the result. Easy 500hp+

Use these off the shelf L2441F30 pistons with a 5.8" rod , stock 327 crank and your 64cc heads on a stock deck height block.
(just shave the block enough to get straight decks. .005")
This gets you the right compression ratio ...

Use a Crane F278-2 #113841 cam 750-850 carb and a Weiand 142-177 blower.
2.10 to 2.33:1 drive ratio.

1Gary 10-14-2012 12:07 AM

How about not fooling around with a thirty yr old block and if need be do whatever it takes to come up with the money for one of these:

SHP Chevy Small Blocks - Chevy Small Blocks - Engine Blocks


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