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VWFan 05-23-2005 12:15 PM

Orange Peel
I know that orange peel has been covered in the forums many times, but I would like to clarify a couple of things...

I painted my 68 Beetle Convertible this weekend and the clear has some orange peel in it. I am using 2 stage PPG Omni, the clear is the MC260 and I am using the MH168 hardner. I sprayed 3 coats of color and about 6 coats of clear (I kept trying to get it to flow out). The clear flowed good in some spots, but overspray and lack of expreience made for a lot of orange peel. I have read that you can wet sand with 1500 - 2000 and then buff it out. I do not have access to a rotary (grinder style) buffer right now and I'm running a little low on $$, so I was wondering if my orbital buffer will suffice. Or if there is something I could adapt to my drill or DA... Also, how long should I allow the clear to cure before starting the process?

Thanks in advance for your help!

baddbob 05-23-2005 01:44 PM

Borrow or rent a buffer, there are foam pads available for use on a DA and it will work if you set the DA on spin mode but a buffer works way better. Make absolutely sure that any tools that have been used with sandpaper are completely clean before using them for buffing- a small piece of abrasive from previous sanding duties can really ruin your day when buffing. Anything related to buffing and colorsanding must be kept perfectly clean.

Bee4Me 05-23-2005 09:35 PM

On the "how long", with 6 COATS it might take a few days before it hardens enough to buff. Try some 1500 DRY first and SEE if the residue "ball's up" under the paper. If it DOES,it's still too wet to sand.
If the 'peel is bad and having that many coats you could start with 1000 then up it to 1500. I'd say 6-800 but it's real easy to cut thru with those grits so I wouldn't go lower than the 1K.
Be SURE to keep your buffing speed under 1700 RPM. SO be carefull that you get a buffer and not a grinder.


302 Z28 05-24-2005 05:13 AM

Get one of the new Porter Cable random orbiter buffers. My son purchased one for his Vette and it is great. It is not your whimpy el cheapo buffer. It is much easier to use than a traditional buffer, and is also much safer to use.

You can find them at Lowes for around $90.


VWFan 05-25-2005 04:19 PM

Hence my confusion....

baddbob - You are saying that the only way to really get a good result is to buy a buffer... Any particular compund you recommend?

Bee4Me - I bought some 1500 grit today, so I will cut it with 1500 and work to 2000. It's been a few days already, so I will test it out. Thanks!

302/Z28 - Are you saying that I can use an orbital buffer for this?

Also, if I sand it now how long do I have before I need to buff it out? Can I sand it now and wait a week or so to buff or does it need to be done right away?

Thanks again!

dawg 05-25-2005 05:22 PM

rent the proper tool.
as far as how long to wait rule of thumb im told is double the 1 week rule.
youll be dealing with a harder clear and itll make for a better job the longer you wait.
heck I painted my car and waited 2 1/2 weeks to wetsand and buff.
heres a pic of the result:
i did BC/CC as you did.
then after about 3 months wax it. (gives paint enough time to properly degas)
paint will be super hard by then.
i suggest glazing aswell soon after

Bee4Me 05-26-2005 07:32 AM

The clear is much easier to cut and buff before it hardens so waiting till it's cured is just going to be harder work.As for how long after sanding,I've alway's buffed right after. The sanding is to remove the 'peel and nib's so a day or 2 shouldn't matter much.
You can get a cheap buffer at Harbor for less money that will do a good job.
The larger pad will mean less work and IMO a flatter looking finish as opposed to a 6" pad on an orbital DA or such.
I suppose a regular orbital would work OK but I have no experience on using one for this.

Compound would be
3M Perfect-It III Regular cut for the inital with a wool or flat foam pad.
3M Swirll remover with a black waffel pad.
3M Finishing Glaze by hand.

dawg 05-26-2005 10:15 AM

working the clear before its hard will tend to cloud the part your working on.
I asked a owner of a paint/body shop.
he said wait til its cured fully.
before getting the nibs and runs etc. out.
its better to go through 20 sheets of 2000 grit than have to do the job over.

VWFan 05-26-2005 10:42 AM

Okay, I looked at a few buffers and have another question....

I see they range in size, so I looked at a 6", 7" (most common), and 9". Other than the amount of surface are that it will cover, is one easier to use than another?

dawg - Thanks for the tip, I will go ahead and wait for it to cure for a few more days. Your Camaro looks NICE!!!

Rick WI 05-26-2005 11:37 AM

3M had a nes series of compound out not called 3000. I think they work better than the prior, although it could be my imagination. what they don't do is grit up like the old compounds did so it's a bit cleaner. Using a wool pad the 3000 compound buffs out 1500 grit no problem.

Bee4Me 05-26-2005 11:45 AM


working the clear before its hard will tend to cloud the part your working on.
Someone will have to explain this one. I've buffed MANY a clear job some within 24hrs and NEVER had any clouding. It's possiable if it's not cured enough to sand (the balling up I mentioned earlier) but if you can sand it,you can buff it.
7",5/8" arbor is the most common. The MAIN thing is the RPM they run at.That's what you want to pay attention to.1700 is the MAX you want to buff with, you can use a faster one but you'll have to trigger it on & off to keep the speed down.

VWFan 05-26-2005 03:27 PM

Thanks everyone! You all helped me figure out what I need and how to do it. So, here's the plan....

I will lightly wet sand the worst areas with some 800 grit.
Then I will start on wet sanding the entire car with 1500.
Then I will switch to 2000 grit.
Then buff out with my yet to be purchased buffer and compound.

I will try to get some pictures posted in my project journal later.

68Camaro396/375 05-26-2005 07:31 PM

For my rotary buffer/grinder I made up an electrical box with a light dimmer switch, a duplex plug (to plug in the buffer) and about a 6' cord to power up the dimmer. This setup works great. It eliminates the clicking on/off of the trigger. I made this set up about 20 yrs. ago and I had to replace the dimmer switch 1 time.

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