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Old 01-18-2007, 11:27 AM
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Original or Modified?

There seems to be quite a few 60's car guys here so a thread to discuss them if you want as they seem to be the hottest item in cars right now.

What brought this up was Barrett Jackson talking highly about #'s matching originals, Resto-Mods, Customs, etc...
Now they seem to be on a tangent of the car should have had a V8 in it to begin with to make it more valuable when modified. I don't follow that logic as on a modified car, like most of them are, nothing is original in the drivetrain anymore anyway.

Case in point is my current project, a 1968 Firebird. It was born as a 6 cylinder, 3 on the column, basic car. I don't think there is anything I could do to that car that would hurt it's value as even restored as original it just ain't worth much. But to hear BJ talk, Mike Joy specifically, it needs to be a V8 to start with. So by his logic do we either leave the 6's alone or scrap them?

I'd think those base cars are the best candidates for modifying as they had no value. But I do think a stock 307 V8 69 Camaro holds somewhat more value as an original than a modified base car, depending on what's modified of course. And no matter what you do to either, they were still not that valuable as original.
But does a modified 307 car have more value than a modified 6 car, given both are done equal? Say making a Z-28 clone out of both? And Why?

Just trying to figure the logic there

Last edited by 428ho; 01-18-2007 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 01-18-2007, 11:39 AM
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There are some differences in a v8 car and a 6 car, usually heavier springs/suspension/brakes, BUT if your modifying it you should do all that while your at it. I don't get it much either. Seems like trying to show off. Like whipping your butt with a $100.

I suppose there is the option to go back numbers matching on an 8 car and have it worth more, but... again why not get what you want to begin with? Honestly there are many people with money who are using these cars as a source of income. Once it becomes theirs, it's instantly worth more. Hence things like trying to make a modified car worth more by saying it was more valuable before modifying it. Of course when the bought it they argued it was worth less because it was modified...

I guess I don't get it either.
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Old 01-18-2007, 11:50 AM
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it is the old buy and sell game, it happens all the time.. Businessman to whole seller " that cost to much" Businessman to customer " It is the last one that is why it cost so much" cars are no different than another product . If you are buying it cost to much, if selling instantly more valuable. All word games nothing more, people just trying to empty your wallet or impress themselves.
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Old 01-18-2007, 12:31 PM
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I just watch it to see the cars and some of the off the wall stuff otherwise it's total fantasy as far as I'm concerned. I don't put a lot of stock in anything that is said on there, I have heard too many inaccuracies from some of their so called "experts", yeah some of those guys have forgotten more than I'll ever know about cars but some of them should just be quiet and let the others do the talking........

If you're going to modify it, it doesn't matter what a car started out with as long as it has the right stuff when you're done. I'd rather have a clone than an original then I wouldn't feel bad when I took it out and spanked it, not that I'd feel real bad about spanking an original. That's why they built them in the first place!
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Old 01-18-2007, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 428ho

Case in point is my current project, a 1968 Firebird. It was born as a 6 cylinder, 3 on the column, basic car. :
What you have to understand is that B-J is considered the top of the heap.....Whether its true is another stiory....

Anyways, a base car is never going to be worth as much as an equally in pristine shape fancy model with the options...Thats just the way it is.

Your 6 cyl Firebird....Was it the overhead cam model, or was there a base regular 6 model? Afriend of mine had a 68 with the overhead cam 6, with a 4bbl.....That was a cool car.
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Old 01-18-2007, 02:02 PM
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My Coupe was a base 6 1 barrel I think, but I've never had the numbers run by PHS, but I do know it was a 6. It had been converted to an 8 when I got it 30+ years ago.

My 68 Convertible still has the OHC 6 1 barrel in it and is all original, I do have an OHC Sprint 6 engine which has the 4 barrel carb on it that I may put in the Vert.
What's funny is years ago when I stopped by a local garage in my Coupe they said they had pulled a Sprint 6 engine from a White 68 Firebird like mine a few years back. They still had it laying out back so he gave it to me. Who knows it might have been the original engine from my car.

But my BJ point was given two cars being modified the same, why would one hold more value just by being a V8 originally when most everything else is the same? What if one was a 6 cyl powerglide and the other was a low perf V8 powerglide, both with std brakes and steering? You have the same car, just a different engine.
You change them both to a 400 with Turbo 400? They are now identical.

There really aren't that many actual "car" parts that are different between a base 6 car and a 2 barrel V8 car but the guys from Speed Channel try to say there is a difference in value after modified?

Oh well, it doesn't change what I'm doing, it's just something I don't understand.
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Old 01-18-2007, 03:29 PM
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Barret- Jackson, logic in the same sentence? What are you smoking?
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Old 01-18-2007, 03:39 PM
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My 70 Chevelle had a 307 in it when I bought it from the "pre-owned & wrecked" yard. It has a salvage title now but does making it a SS LS6 clone trump the Salvage title?? It is an original V-8 car.....
It doesn't change what I'm doing to it anyways, I'm not looking to retire off of it IF I ever sell it.
People who watch the B-J auction and have some desirable car rotting in their back yard instantly think it's worth 6 figures. The Pomona Swap meet not far from my house has proof of that. People with a work in progress 67 Camaro think it's worth 60k. Ridiculous!
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Old 01-18-2007, 05:29 PM
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I'm thinking about this and I'm beginning to see the logic behind your question. Using BJs logic, that would mean that Ford Model Ts aren't worth what a Model A is worth because they never originally had V8 engines. It would also mean a Model A that originally came with a 4 banger couldn't be worth what a Model A that originally came with a V8 would be - no matter how highly they're modified.

Muscle cars from the 60s are a whole different animal, I know. But the fact is a GTO is worth more than a Tempest is - even if comparably equipped from the factory. A clone isn't worth the same as an original either - but only to somebody who cares about that. If you built a 1969 Rally Sport clone out of a Camaro that was originally a 6 cylinder car, that's cool as long as you're not trying to sell it as an original Rally Sport. Building and driving what you like is fantastic - misrepresenting when it's for sale is another thing. If someone wants to pay you $40K for it knowing it's a clone from the get-go, that's on them.

I don't see BJs logic either. They also forget the first rule of selling anything - it's only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. Keep thinking that basketcase Camaro is worth $60K - you'll have it for the rest of your life.
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Old 01-18-2007, 06:21 PM
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Right or wrong........it's all about the options.....always was, always will be.
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Old 01-18-2007, 07:29 PM
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It's just like women.

Two women, same age, height, weight, looks etc. One was born with a set of DD's and the other with A's. The second one gets enhanced and now they're both DD's. Which one is more desirable???? Depends on the buyer (but only in Nevada of course).
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
Depends on the buyer (but only in Nevada of course).
Hey! Now wait a minute!
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:32 PM
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I think it depends on what you want out the car. Do you want something that will be an investment or something that is fun or both. The cars that have the desirable options are going high, but as time goes on the base cars value will go up also. It's just going to take longer.

As for Barrett - Jackson, it's a decent show to watch, but I can't help feeling that shows like that drive up the price of cars. You've got people selling rusted out early cars at crazy prices because of that show. Just because they heard or saw one go for big bucks. They don't understand that the car was a numbers matching, red Hemi 4 speed convertible Cuda, they just hear that it was a Barracuda and automatically assume the hulk behind their house that is a hard top with a 6 and automatic must be valuable too.

If it was me, I'd build it the way I wanted and not worry about the power plant or numbers matching. Sooner or later, someone will want it. Like all markets, it's a buyers market. Whatever the market will bear. Who knows, there may be a guy out there who owned a 6 cylinder car like yours and has fond memories of it and will be willing to pay ANYTHING to have one like it again.
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:39 PM
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Isn't just like Centerline to make everything crystal clear!
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:49 AM
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V8 model As? sorry, the last A was 1931 and the first V8 Ford was the Deuce in 1932. A 4 cyl 32 was called a B model.
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