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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2010, 11:31 AM
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I'll do the test fersher. Perhaps on the inner fenders first.

I live in the "high desert" so flash rust isn't really a problem for me as long as stuff is inside. I'm mainly worried about little pits of rust I have, mainly under where the SST trim was.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thommyknocker
I'll do the test fersher. Perhaps on the inner fenders first.

I live in the "high desert" so flash rust isn't really a problem for me as long as stuff is inside. I'm mainly worried about little pits of rust I have, mainly under where the SST trim was.
AMC Javelin?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2010, 12:15 PM
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LOL Nope.

50 chevy sedan that I'm reworking a bad chop on. I've got all my major patches done.
The current plan is to mechanicaly strip it and epoxy prime this summer.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:49 PM
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This thread is simply awesome. I have been stalking this board and others trying to learn about paint and prep, but with so much information, and some of it disputed them minute its posted, I felt like my head was gonna explode.

I am restoring a car in a carport and rusting of my repairs is a big problem. It's demoralizing to see something you patched in covered in rust even after you rattle-canned it or sprayed on some weld-thru primer because it has been sitting for months. I've been wondering what to do about the situation. Strangely, this is the first time I've also seen a clear sequence from bare metal upwards all in one place.

Unless I have misread:
Remove loose rust, if any
Ospho, wipe off excess
Sand/scuff Ospho when paint time comes.
Use Grease/Wax remover to clean off residue.
Epoxy prime. Let dry (but not fully cure?)
Apply body filler, sand and smooth
Use Grease/Wax remover to clean off residue.
base coat?

Is that right?

Thanks again DBM! PS: Your writing skills have incredibly improved!
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2010, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontiac_Judas

Is that right?

Thanks again DBM! PS: Your writing skills have incredibly improved!
OK,OK, enough about my writing skills or lack there of,LOL. Ya'll r makin me feel like a real idiot,now
You got everything right...except always, always let the epoxy fully cure before applying the filler.
BTW your situation is the #1 reason for using this....
I'm not done yet though, we still got to get the serious rust done ,its a whole differnt process,and a lot of dirty nasty work....so far this is just the easy stuff....Heres an example of what can be done in your garage at home.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thommyknocker
LOL Nope.

50 chevy sedan that I'm reworking a bad chop on. I've got all my major patches done.
The current plan is to mechanicaly strip it and epoxy prime this summer.
I mistook the SST trim ...cool car
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:22 PM
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Confused!

Why does the owner of SPI (barry k) say in his tech sheets "do not use any metal treatments with my epoxy primers?
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:57 PM
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Hey Dead,
That's a cool ride you have there , what's the engine for it? RED was right, we probably should refrain from adding comments until you're finished; I couldn't resist. Should we have another thread called "ospho solution questions and comments"?.... Just a thought ...Anyway, Great job and a sincere thanks for your time....after all YOU already know how to make it work, lol.
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62galaxiguy
Why does the owner of SPI (barry k) say in his tech sheets "do not use any metal treatments with my epoxy primers?

I can't speak for Barry but I would guess that most people don't use it properly and it has caused him much grief.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2010, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62galaxiguy
Why does the owner of SPI (barry k) say in his tech sheets "do not use any metal treatments with my epoxy primers?
For the same reason I'm writing this thread ....SOOOO many people had bad results and problems with adhesion.

Here's an old thread (5yrs ago).look at post#3 Compatability? SPI/Ospho
At the time of this thread I was already using Ospho for over twenty years...

He got so many complaints he just recommends NOT using it.(I asked him the same question a year ago)
I know Barry gets swamped with phone calls about this stuff,But if he so negitive with his comments on the subject I never would have wrote this.
It's just mt attempt to set the record straight...Hopefully this will help HIM as much as it helps the DIYs

As you guys can see its not that hard to use and adhesion is NOT an issue if used properly.
Personally,I believe the primer sticks BETTER with Ospho....But his primer is also very good....so far I just cant PROVE it sticks better...
But thats NOT why I use it... as you can see ..it does stick at least AS good.

Its very important to wipe off the excess and sand before primer....
The first thing you'll notice is how much more filth comes off the metal after you think it's clean (sanded with 80 gt) that alone amazes me every time I use it.

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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:57 AM
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Hwy, It may be hard to believe, but that old Plymouth is the SOLE reason were having this discussion today.
My son came down to Ga. to live with me and had an interest in cars so I started searching for a cool looking one we could build from the ground up that was was in very rough shape because I hate chopping up a valuable rare car.
I saw an ad for a 48 ply biz coupe and thought we would go look at it (I always wanted a biz coupe)Well, from the road (1000') it looked Sooo cool I didn't think THAT was the one for sale.
Anyways when I saw the look on my boys face (a 15yr old future hotrodder ) he said : That cant be the one!!!! HE loved it too.
Well, it WAS the one... we bought it and the change in him overnight was simply amazing.
He went from sleeping till noon and getting waited on hand and foot to waking me up at 5:30 every morning and making breakfast for us,just to go to the shop and work on that hopeless rust bucket.We got very close that year ,we got it sub framed and running using junk yard stuff I had laying around (mostly camero stuff)(below is one of the first pics of the car after a years work)
well, his old girlfriend called and wanted to hook back up again, she called him every night and he got Love sick and moved back to NY.
I worked on that car every spare minute I could (in secret) to show him what can be done if you stick to your dream and don't give up.

two years later we were talking on the the phone and I told him I had been working on that car all this time and it was in primer now.I had just got a deal on a fresh 350 so I got in and started it up with the open headers.He got all excited ,he couldn't believe I was working on the car all this time and never told him.....
Well to make a long story a little shorter ..He wanted me to join the human race and get an email address to send pics and vids ,I did, but for some reason I wasn't able to send them (files to big) So he told me to join www.streetfire.net and I started learning how to use the computer.One day I pecked in "Hot rod" and stumbled onto this site...I joined and right off I got into an argument with Barry an a few other members about Ospho,got suspended for two weeks and the rest is history.that was a year ago
I saved the thread to remind me from time to time.Master chemical nomorerust for pitted surfaces
keep in mind I had no idea who Barry was. I came onto this site recommending ,mainly two things SPI and Ospho...Shine told me who it was I was telling didn't know what heck he was talking about...LOL ...ONE thing's for sure Barry and Shine and I might just be the three most stubborned dinos here.at least NOW I can use this thing a little better ,,,no machine will ever get the best of ME,LOL....BTW, my wifes friend said it looks like the police were dragging a lake for a body and this was pulled up.thats when I got the unusual nickname DBM.....I hope Ya'll liked my little story,long in the tooth as it is...
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:24 AM
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DBM

Please, do not use my name in your tests and please do not quote me unless you use the whole statement I made.

A while back in the other threads I posted what the acid film will do to three different chemicals, related to just three different products, it was lost and buried with bs add ons, so no need for me to bring it up again as it gets proven over and over again here that facts tend to get buried for other personal gains.

None of your test addressed the factual chemical reaction and most important in that companies own tech sheet it says—Works best under oil based paints—who uses oil based paints? That should sum the stuff up right there.

I have posted elsewhere that I get over 100 failure calls a year related to acid film and all but about a half dozen of these were other products because if they used SPI, they would have seen all the warnings and called for directions first.

I help these people best I can as usually they worked two years on their project and killed the family budget to buy the paint and it kills me, to tell them, start over and it’s really not my problem, since they used another brand.

Do all the homemade tests you want but do not associate me in anyway.

SO post your phone number and I will send these people to you, just keep my name off this stuff.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2010, 10:29 AM
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The following was asked on 11-15-05:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenaway2long
Barry,
Have you heard of Ospho/Skyco? Its a product that is used extensively in the marine industry to treat rusted metal and stop bare metal from rusting. I undeerstand Randy Ferguson uses your epoxy over it, but I want the straight scoop.

Heres my reason:
As a hobbyist, I can only commit so much time to each area. To e-prime each area as I complete it, is not really in the cards for me. I would much rather clean it, and Ospho it, protecting it until I can do the priming all at one time. Takes too long to clean up the area, protect my lift with drop clothes from overspray, clean the car, mix paint, spray, clean gun , etc.

Seems to me, that I represent a fairly large portion of the hobbyist guys. If your products are 100% compatable, then I think it would be a FANTASTIC marketing approach for you. Sure, Ospho would benefit, but a little creativity on your part may get you in on that deal too!

Wouldn't it be super, to be able to just work a section of fender, wipe it clean, Ospho it, then finally paint it when you get a large enough area to justify it?
The reply on the same day, was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Yes it works fine, if instructions are followed.

The ideal situation of course is to apply the epoxy but 2K primer would also work over a smaller area.

Funny, the timing of this question as I was reading the instructions off a bottle of this stuff today in a jobber store and it says let let overnight before painting over it.

I have never recommend the stuff because items like this get abused and than that leads to problems. As the bottle states for minor pitting etc.
Same thread, the next day. 'red' opined:
Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
Ospho is simply an acid solution that only acts to convert any rust that is present
The Ph goes neutral where there is no rust to act on (wait over night to prime) in roughly 24 hours (often much longer!)
It has no future rust prevention capability and can cause paint adhesion problems because it leaves converted scale on the surface

No thank you, from experience, the worst to use on a surface to be finished later
To which this reply was given:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Red65,

Back about 15 years ago most of the paint companies started shying away from any kind of acid treatment.

In a manufacturing facility under very controlled conditions there is nothing better than an acid treatment.
Body shops are not "very controlled conditions" so acids in the past have created more problems then they solved.

It scares me to death the mention of acid treatment but if done like the labels says its good but the first time a painter plays bench chemist and says I'm not diluting or rinsing with water if the can calls for that, your in trouble.

I cannot begin to count the number of jobs I have seen failed over the years because of acid treatment use.
Everyone has the right to change their mind about anything. But the written word is stubborn- it tends to stick around better than any two part primer.

Having read most if not all the threads here about ospho and similar rust conversion treatments, I have seen a lot of “learning” has been done; those who would say one thing at one time, have changed their minds due to their having “learned” ‘things’. Exactly how this “knowledge” has been attained, and how that "knowledge" has affected the veiled endorsements- I know not. I seem to remember that there was something said to the effect that things change over time.

I would have thought that the partial, conditional "endorsement" of the product would have been sufficient. Apparently, the "knowledge" that was gained in the interim has negated the proviso-laden statements, to the point that ospho has now been relegated to the "don't use" category.

It is interesting to see how the positions have morphed over time. At least DBM's position on the subject- right or wrong- has been steadfast throughout. No waffling.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2010, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
The following was asked on 11-15-05: The reply on the same day, was:Same thread, the next day. 'red' opined:To which this reply was given:
Everyone has the right to change their mind about anything. But the written word is stubborn- it tends to stick around better than any two part primer.

Having read most if not all the threads here about ospho and similar rust conversion treatments, I have seen a lot of “learning” has been done; those who would say one thing at one time, have changed their minds due to their having “learned” ‘things’. Exactly how this “knowledge” has been attained, and how that "knowledge" has affected the veiled endorsements- I know not. I seem to remember that there was something said to the effect that things change over time.

I would have thought that the partial, conditional "endorsement" of the product would have been sufficient. Apparently, the "knowledge" that was gained in the interim has negated the proviso-laden statements, to the point that ospho has now been relegated to the "don't use" category.

It is interesting to see how the positions have morphed over time. At least DBM's position on the subject- right or wrong- has been steadfast throughout. No waffling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No things don't change Cobalt, first read what I said follow instructions, I used it under lacquers years ago and it stated rinse with water, don't anymore.

Also see the statment, "rinse with water", It was stated in other post I use it for small parts and use 2 rinse buckets like the e-coaters do.

I still tell peopel it will work if nutalised.
Learn to read!
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2010, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
I still tell peopel it will work if nutalised.
Learn to read!
-------------

Last edited by cobalt327; 04-10-2010 at 12:39 PM. Reason: point made...
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