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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olegplanets View Post
Not a cost issue at all, just trying to make it as simple as possible. Less steps, less chances of screwing something up. Does this wax remover leave any sort of film behind it? Do I need to rinse it with water? If so, it's an additional complication and I don't want to complicate the job unless it clearly affects its quality. For example if rust was removed near seams/crevices and I have to spray water to clean the wax remover than it can get inside and take days to dry.
It doesn't leave a film behind.
Its specifically made for this use. You use it on a lint free cloth and hand wipe, no rinsing.

Google it or search this site. You're on the right track about doing things correctly. Please remember to forget about the POR style paints if you're already at bare metal. They don't stick well.

Epoxy primer will be sold locally also at automotive paint suppliers but I've never heard more positive comments about epoxy than I hear about SPI.
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 06:49 AM
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Thats the stuff.The only difference in Ospho and Navel jelly as far as I can tell is Ospho is a lot more concentrated and works faster.When I remove rust I pour or spray the Ospho on and start wire wheeling the rust off right away.If you see any areas turn black they'll need a second application ,the black is rust being converted and thats not something you want.I 've done as many as 4 apps on some cars...
after I sand with 80-180 I'll blow the car off with air then use thee W&G finger prints, sweat,contaminets from the air supply theres a hundred things that can get on the car The W&G is the way to prep before priming..After you sand a car for paint you would want to W&G ,right? when I prep a car I always W&G everything ,to clean the car and make the tape stick better.After taping and right before paint it gets one last shot with W&G ,You should always ,always ,always W&G just before spraying anything.it's good insurance.theres no such thing as using too much of the stuff...and the metal can never be TOO clean.
I really wouldnt use POR products as they are converters and removing rust is always the goal...
As far as epoxy primer goes I really like and prefer SPI but I've used many brands in my time, they all work but SPI seems be stand way above the rest and the owner (Barry K.)is always just a phone call away if I ever have any dumb questions about his products...
I'll try to get some better vidios up but I need a good vidio camera that is idiot proof and a little tougher than my last one that was dropped a few times and quit on me...I'm thinking about getting a new one for my wifes birthday so I can get her old one...so far she wont even let me touch it... for now I'm cameraless but I'm working on it..
Good luck with all your projects guys.... Hey how about some pics of your results using Ospho or Navel jelly in the meantime....
Its good to hear that Canada has the two products That I concider the best out there just in case I ever decide to pack it all up and leave the sunny ,snowless state of Ga.... I still have quite a few relitives in the great white North
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielC View Post
I live in Portland, Or, and have been trying to get Ospho locally. I finally found it at a "Wilco", a local farm supply type store.

I will see how it works for me.

Post some pics Dan...Not everybody gets it right the first time.
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 07:05 AM
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Hey DBM, your PM box is full...
Sorry...inbox cleared...
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 07:07 AM
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I am a Production Forman in the Gulf Of Mexico , on an OIl platform, as you may or maynoy know the salt wt. and salt air causes major rust problems on all our piping, we have been using Ospho out here for many yrs. great product.
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 07:21 AM
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appaently the guys at skyco have intrests in hotrods and got in touch with me after reading this thread.....I had some interesting conversations and one of the things I was told was the auto industry only accounts for less than 1% of of its sales...its mostly sold to guys like you working on big projects that buy it by the 55 gal drum.
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 01:24 PM
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Well Mike, I got my Ospho in the mail today, I am going to finish reading this entire thread before I jump in, but I will be trying the DBM rust method.

Brian
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 01:32 PM
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I was thrilled by the way finding it on line thru Amazon for $10.36 a quart. I went ahead and got two quarts with shipping for the same price as one quart here in town. And I can't even guarantee that because they had none in stock and said that they would have to order and sell me a case of 12 but would ask the manager. After finding it on Amazon I never went back.
Amazon.com: ospho rust treatment Amazon.com: ospho rust treatment

But after googling it and looking all over this was the first site that had it singular, everywhere be it a quart or gallon only sold it by the case. I searched all over town at the McHome stores and even at my beloved REAL hardware store here in town, nothing.

So I was thrilled to find it on Amazon and wham, here it is ordered on the first of July, it's in my hand. I think the rust was ok waiting 9 days for me to get it.

Brian
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 02:41 PM
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Try looking at "farm" or tractor supply stores. I have also seen Ospho at Miller paint stores in the Northwest.
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 07:47 PM
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Would the Ospho be a good solution to the Dodge Peel from the 90's?


From what I read, is this the right approach to your way?
-Spray Ospho on (or wipe?)
-Angle Grinder with 5" cup wheel
-DA with 180 to get the Ospho off (no rinse)
-Wax/Grease remover
-Epoxy Primer
-Fill any pits
-Sand
-Epoxy Prime again
-Sand if needed
-Color
-Clear

Here's what I'm talking about:




Everyone's pretty familiar with this I'm sure.

Then this caught me a little off guard. Is that a sponge between the wheel arch and the wheel well? There's one on both sides and it looks factory to me. Was this a planned water retainer? I don't get why the sponge is there. Maybe it's to prevent rattle? Either way it doesn't look good as far as rust is concerned:
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 10:18 PM
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According to my neighbor, from about 2002 to around 2006 had that foam sound deadener/panel stiffener/whatever-it-is. If your truck is older, I'll let him know. One of the worst ideas to come down the pike in a while IMO. Killed my neighbor's Ram, too.
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  #177 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
It doesn't leave a film behind.
Its specifically made for this use. You use it on a lint free cloth and hand wipe, no rinsing.

Google it or search this site. You're on the right track about doing things correctly. Please remember to forget about the POR style paints if you're already at bare metal. They don't stick well.

Epoxy primer will be sold locally also at automotive paint suppliers but I've never heard more positive comments about epoxy than I hear about SPI.
Made for this use?
As DBM said, automotive is about 1% of market and in automotive we donít use alkyds, so I guess we can assume the HofC, PPG and Duponts acid tech sheets are wrong about neutralizing as well as SPIís.
By the way, last I knew years a few years ago the Dupont and PPG acid system was made by Skyco (ospho)
Lets sum it up The call a few weeks ago.
THE CALLER:
I read the post about the guy saying you could wash off the epoxy and then everyone elseís that they could not, so my car has been in epoxy for 9 months and I can wash it off.
The tech line (this is all condensed to keep short) I donít need to know how you did it, as only two things will cause this, short of not activating the epoxy.
1) Acid that has not been neutralized. Only cure for this problem is a razor scraper and it will shave off easily, sand blasting will work also, then we can retreat and neutralize.
2) Epoxy was sprayed in cold weather and has stopped reacting, cure is put in sun for 2-7 days and see if the sun will restart the curing process, you have a 90% chance in your favor and with simple testing each night we will know inside of two days if this will work.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The call I get about 4-5 times a month:
My body filler dried good but where I sand through at the metal the body filler is still gummy, is the body filler bad?
NO!, it was applied over un-neutralized acid.
We spend $20,000-30,000 a year in tech books, sure do seem like a waste of money.

Acid can only be neutralized while wet with water, anything else is just a plane crap-shoot.
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:35 AM
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One more post on proper way to treat and I will stay away from this.

Acid can only be neutralized while wet and all you need to do is take a clean rag with water and wipe off and dry.
If it has dried, retreat with itself and let set 30 seconds to one minute and wipe off with water as above.
Then da with 80, wash with wax and grease remover and you are ready to epoxy.

A note about sanding, that is very risky sanding an acid film as test have shown at best you end up with 40-60% adhesion.
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  #179 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 06:17 AM
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Leta address this neautralizing issue. theres two mabee three reasons to use ospho....1st would be to remove rust which it does very well.....2nd to protect bare metal from surface rust which it also does very well....3rd to etch metal or get metal super clean...
I think we all agree that it does all three very well.. So I have slightly revised my own proceedure by sanding it off completly when its done its job and no longer needed this way even if it was applied wrong or to much was left on and let dry sanding it off seems like the best way to use it that everyone can easily do so I started sanding it off a few panels or even one with 80 grit (whatever I feel I have time to do that day) and and epoxy priming what I sanded this is something EVERYONE can do even if they have never done it before....and even if it takes them two days to sand a fender...

Now 1st of all if I was to wash it off (neautralize it) then it wouldnt prevent surface rust any more and thats a big reason for using it in the first place.So you absolutely want it to dry..

2nd lets say your disolving the rust and using the wire wheel ,getting it all out of the pits and everything is going well, the rust is gone, there will always be tiny microscopic traces left (even if you sandblasted) the ospho will convert whats left and as much as I hate converting rust I feel its better than nothing and its fine when your talking microscopic traces...washing it off while its wet would leave it unprotected and we all know what happens when you put water on rust or bare metal...so the whole idea of washing it off (neautralizing it) makes absolutely no sence to me at all. Sorry Bear...mabee you could explain it so I could get a better understanding of the whole deal. but its my understanding that you cant neautralize acid with water you can only dilute it ,water itself is acidic you would need a base to neautralize acid ...wouldn't you need something like baking soda if you truely wanted it neautralized ???????
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK View Post

A note about sanding, that is very risky sanding an acid film as test have shown at best you end up with 40-60% adhesion.
Not according to my own test..I tried to scrape it off with a razor scraper and couldnt so if thats 40-60% adheasion thats pretty dang good ...Ive also treated one side of a hood and not the other, I've done all kinds of tests since this thread started...If I was having adheasion problems not only would I know about it I certainly would stop using it or follow YOUR instructions. Barry your a great guy and you've been a big help to me with all kinds of paint questions but I dont think we'll ever see eye to eye on this mainly because of all the paint and body products I've been using since 1976 ospho is the ONLY one that I still use and as hard headed as I know I can be If I had any doubts what so ever I'd say so...how ever wouldnt some litnus paper show if wiping as actually neautralized it? it seems to me that after the first wipe a wet towel would do anything...
This has been interesting but I gotta go right now ,I'll be back....
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