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  #181 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 07:50 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Checking the acidity would be easy enough with litmus paper wouldn't it?

Brian

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  #182 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 08:05 AM
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brian , pull out your tech books from ppg , dupont or any other mfg and look at metal prep . they all say " keep wet then rinse to neutralize " .
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  #183 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 09:14 AM
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I hear ya.

Brian
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  #184 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK View Post
Made for this use?
As DBM said, automotive is about 1% of market and in automotive we donít use alkyds, so I guess we can assume the HofC, PPG and Duponts acid tech sheets are wrong about neutralizing as well as SPIís.
By the way, last I knew years a few years ago the Dupont and PPG acid system was made by Skyco (ospho)
Lets sum it up The call a few weeks ago.
THE CALLER:
I read the post about the guy saying you could wash off the epoxy and then everyone elseís that they could not, so my car has been in epoxy for 9 months and I can wash it off.
The tech line (this is all condensed to keep short) I donít need to know how you did it, as only two things will cause this, short of not activating the epoxy.
1) Acid that has not been neutralized. Only cure for this problem is a razor scraper and it will shave off easily, sand blasting will work also, then we can retreat and neutralize.
2) Epoxy was sprayed in cold weather and has stopped reacting, cure is put in sun for 2-7 days and see if the sun will restart the curing process, you have a 90% chance in your favor and with simple testing each night we will know inside of two days if this will work.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The call I get about 4-5 times a month:
My body filler dried good but where I sand through at the metal the body filler is still gummy, is the body filler bad?
NO!, it was applied over un-neutralized acid.
We spend $20,000-30,000 a year in tech books, sure do seem like a waste of money.

Acid can only be neutralized while wet with water, anything else is just a plane crap-shoot.
Hey Barry.

In my defence, I was talking about wax and grease remover.


I do know that Ospho and rust removers leave a film and I would never say otherwise.I use a wire wheel to get every last spec of rust remover off my stuff. You know it's there when dust flies doing this.

Recently, I went as far as buying a micro sand blaster to get the rust and acid out of pits.


I'm really picky now about trace rust and convertor black specs being left behind.
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  #185 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:13 PM
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pugsy , starblast is really good for pits and seams. it is a really fine media and would work good in small blasters. it's my go to media for rust.
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  #186 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:22 PM
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pugsy , starblast is really good for pits and seams. it is a really fine media and would work good in small blasters. it's my go to media for rust.

Thanks Shine.
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  #187 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:25 PM
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That is what I am thinking too, get it all out. I just picked up some Black Diamond media material and I am very happy with it's performance. I will see if I can come up with some Starblast and give it a try too.

Brian
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  #188 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:36 PM
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Shine, what is the brand name of the Starblast? When I google it I get a few different ones, Clemtex, Marco, and Dupont, and that is just a quick google so I guess it's a pretty popular name. The Marco is $80 for a 50lb pail. double The Black diamond I picked up was only $7.88 so that is quite a shock.

Brian
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  #189 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:59 PM
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I Ospho'd a set of fabricated headers for my big block Mopar 5 years ago. They STILL look brand new! It's amazing stuff. I always keep a quart of it in the garage.
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  #190 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown Camaro View Post
I Ospho'd a set of fabricated headers for my big block Mopar 5 years ago. They STILL look brand new! It's amazing stuff. I always keep a quart of it in the garage.
Did you paint them?

Brian
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  #191 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:30 PM
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it's dupont. i pay pallet price but it's around 10 bucks a 50lb bag.
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  #192 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Hey Barry.

In my defence, I was talking about wax and grease remover.


I do know that Ospho and rust removers leave a film and I would never say otherwise.I use a wire wheel to get every last spec of rust remover off my stuff. You know it's there when dust flies doing this.

Recently, I went as far as buying a micro sand blaster to get the rust and acid out of pits.


I'm really picky now about trace rust and convertor black specs being left behind.
----------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry!!! BUT it needed to be said and I'm glad I said it and now people can do what they want and how they want.

I guess I read into it what I wanted to see?

My testing is done with a $4000+ adheision tester and I'm sure PPG and the other big boys have ones much more expiensive and that is why they come to the same conclusion.

If this post saves one person from a redo, it was worth it.
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  #193 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:44 PM
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remember what you told me barry. if we dont say something some poor guy blows his budget and a years worth of work.
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  #194 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK View Post
Made for this use?
As DBM said, automotive is about 1% of market and in automotive we donít use alkyds, so I guess we can assume the HofC, PPG and Duponts acid tech sheets are wrong about neutralizing as well as SPIís.
By the way, last I knew years a few years ago the Dupont and PPG acid system was made by Skyco (ospho)
Lets sum it up The call a few weeks ago.
THE CALLER:
I read the post about the guy saying you could wash off the epoxy and then everyone elseís that they could not, so my car has been in epoxy for 9 months and I can wash it off.
The tech line (this is all condensed to keep short) I donít need to know how you did it, as only two things will cause this, short of not activating the epoxy.
1) Acid that has not been neutralized. Only cure for this problem is a razor scraper and it will shave off easily, sand blasting will work also, then we can retreat and neutralize.
2) Epoxy was sprayed in cold weather and has stopped reacting, cure is put in sun for 2-7 days and see if the sun will restart the curing process, you have a 90% chance in your favor and with simple testing each night we will know inside of two days if this will work.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The call I get about 4-5 times a month:
My body filler dried good but where I sand through at the metal the body filler is still gummy, is the body filler bad?
NO!, it was applied over un-neutralized acid.
We spend $20,000-30,000 a year in tech books, sure do seem like a waste of money.

Acid can only be neutralized while wet with water, anything else is just a plane crap-shoot.
I believe puggs is talking about wax & grease remver not leaving a film ...
You can NOT apply bondo over any metal treated with ospho it wont stick it has to be epoxy primed and bondo is applied over epoxy..
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  #195 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine View Post
remember what you told me barry. if we dont say something some poor guy blows his budget and a years worth of work.
I agree with that...you have to remember how easy it is to screw something up especially for someone with little experiance. thats the whole reason for this thread,to help ospho users get good quality work.
I completely understand how someone (even a seasond pro )could use this one time,screw it up and hate the product ,all the time it was user error and has nothing to do with the product at all....Heres a good example I epoxied some fenders and didnt use ospho and the primer pulled off with the tape...I didnt blame the primer I looked more closely at what '"I" did wrong and found out first hand you cant spray epoxy when its 50 degrees out.Now if I was some old hard headed fossil I would have simply said that brand of epoxy SUCKS and thats it...
Ive seen old lacquer primer guys screw up epoxy and refuse to ever use it again and they are still using lacquer,it makes me cringe...
Ive mixed epoxy up at 4:1 when it was supposed to be mixed at 1:1 also ...mistakes happen..
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