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The Ospho Solution..(rust removal)

353K views 664 replies 61 participants last post by  Lizer 
#1 ·
This is the start of a thread dedicated to successful rust removal using ospho,a water based phosphric acid product I've been using professionally for many years.
Ospho has some advantages over other methods, mainly a DIY can do it at home inexpensively with little mess,fairly easily.
I'll try to answer any questions and offer some advice on the successful use of this product.
.....First,I'll start with the most common use : To remove surface rust That has accumulated on unprotected steel....Then heavly rusted and pitted metal,and using it to prevent surface rust of freshly stripped steel...
...
The pics below show the trunk floor and wheel wells I made for my old car.After making the pieces and screwing them together ,it got cold out and I put the car up for a couple months and the steel got pretty rusty.
In the interest of time I'll just do a spot to show how its done and what Materials you'll need.Bare with me I'm a newbie with the computer.
 

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#527 ·
One other thing mike, you pointed out about stopping the metal from rusting by leaving the coating.

Here is another chemical FACT. If there is ANY product that will prevent corrosion from starting on metal after ANY coating is applied, that product should be patented and that person will never work again in his life.

This is not my statement but was told to me years ago (about 20) by one of my best friends, who is PHD and is head of development of additives that go in epoxies and paint for the largest supplier in the world, he was just here again yesterday and if you want oil rig or car or bridge coatings he has the answer how to make, learned a lot from him over the years.
So in-tune he has a book with every bridge in the country and what coating were used on it.
 
#530 ·
Barry you can BS all you like, like priming over flash rust, zinc rich epoxy can't work on a car, my people have developed epoxies that combine with urethane resins and they work anywhere.You keep saying you're epoxy has UV stabilizers and extenders when you should just use a urethane for your hot rod black that will go 20 years outside without chalking. You can't take a dog and turn it into a cat.as for the hydrochloric acid in the De scaler it's there for a reason to dissolve the heavier rust and it can be neutralized.Every time you make on your statements I always would check with the lab guys to see if I missed something. We have epoxies that can be applied is low is 50° without any problem so maybe you can work on that.
 
#531 ·
You need lab guys then!
Hell there are epoxies that work at 25-30 degrees but they don't work on cars, so I don't want one, if the best your guys can do is 50, for $75,000 I will write them a formula.

Car paints are measured in mils, bridge paint in 1/4 inches.
Are they the ones that told you por 15 was so good and remember you wrote the tech sheet for por and then you show a panel said it was ecoat and it was por, ecoat is not that thick, then you go to the next plan and say por is no good after you get beat up.

You do fit the profile of someone that would slap a label on something and set at flee markets, like you say you have done for 30 years.
I was personally hoping someone would use your procedure on a frame, that is why I stayed away, as I don't care. the results WILL speak for them-self after first chip.
 
#533 ·
Moderator,
RE post I made #531, why not delete it, I don't need to be responding to a total idiot that has lied from the first minute he has gotten on here.
Anyone that can't read through all that crap deserves what they get, so no need for my post mudding up the water as a waste of time.
Thank you
Barry
 
#535 ·
I got the impression this was all a bunch of bickering so I didn't read any of it but this stuff sounds awesome! We often strip cars and have to go back over them before primer cause panels will sit in bare metal for too long, but this sounds great. Gonna bring this up to the boss so we can switch to Ospho from rust mort. I never understood the logic of trying to fight rust and then putting water on the panel you just saved-lol Makes no sense if you think about it.

Thanks for taking the time to do this, Deadbodyman. Too bad I'm not able to see the videos. says there's an error.
 
#536 ·
Even with all the bickering its all good if even one person learns caution using acid for rust removal and panel prep. and has success because of it all.Too many people just throw it on and forget about it because it just looks like clean metal,you cant tell its on there...the main thing is the adheasion of the epoxy I cant stress enough to test your adheasion before moving on to the next step of your build that way if you missed something you'll catch it .....
Since starting this thread I've become much more cautious about the adheasion of my epoxy ,I always try to scrape it off with a razor in a few spots before going on to the next step...If there is a problem thats when you want to catch it....
 
#537 ·
when I use rust mort I let it sit overnight, use water to neutralize it, then hit it with 80 to be safe. Not sure if there's a better way but eliminating the water completely is what grabs my attention, and obviously the results of letting it sit. Hopefully we get some Ospho in the shop in the near future.
 
#538 · (Edited)
I'm having chest pains. Read the directions on Ospho and Rust Mort it's a converter. It turns rust into iron oxide, and leaves a primer.it's not meant for clean steel. Our Metal Prep was developed 25 years ago for the sole purpose that when you strip the car it would remain rust free until its ready for paint and it contains Zinc so paint jobs dont go south in a year or two.
 
#541 · (Edited)
Actually Pat, Ospho is a metal prep also it makes clean metal cleaner and etches steel.
I'm not sure about rust mortas a metal prep but anything with phosphric acid will convert rust, on the surface anyways...we dont want to convert rust we want it gone. unless its microscopic traces left behind, converting that stuff is ok,IMO
As far as the zinc goes. I'm not a fan of it and heres why (just my take on it and I could be wrong ,but) I'm thinking of how a car battery works...the zinc disolves from one electrode and moves through the acid solution to the other electrode ,when all the zinc is on the other electrode the battery needs to be recharged the zinc then disolves and moves through the solution back to the original electrode giving it a full charge again.....Think of the disolved zinc in the(rust remover) acid solution and how its like using a wax & grease remover ,the W&G disolves the wax and grease and if you dont wipe it up while wet the solvent evaporates leaving the wax and grease on the surface....I feel that zinc isnt stuck very well to the metal and needs to come off before priming ,at least on the outside of the car I also feel its not neededon the outside of a car since the Ospho leaves a coating that protects the steel...in other words its one more thing that can go wrong using acid and its hard enough just getting people to use Opspho properly.The zinc aditive might be very usefull though,like for inside boxed frame rails and plenty of other stuff you cant get at to clean and prime properly maybe door bottoms and such where ospho would eventually wash away...I still prefer the ospho but Ido see plenty of things the master series would be better for and the zinc is the reason why on both counts... I got some of your descaler/heavy rust remover, last week and just waiting for some time to try it out
 
#544 ·
Mike, no argument from me that phosphoric acid cleans metal up. As far is the zinc I had no complaints or problems with paintwork down the road .I have been so lucky that we don't experience any problems here and if a coating or chemical was problematic it would get canceled or changed very quickly. Like yourself I have spent so much time trying to bring back the dead the last thing I would need is product that would mess me up.I hope you'll find some time to try out the primer I sent you. Thanks for everything you do.
 
#547 ·
That should be easy enough for you or anyone to do, it should not be a problem in your area to find sheetmetal with deep pits. What I have found with most of these products is that they are not reusable, or they are too aggressive and take away some metal also, and/or cause paint problems.
 
#553 ·
milkstone is formulated to be diluted . we're talking about cleaning a 4k gal SS tank and usually 10 to 20 milking stations plus various pieces of equipment. that is why it is packaged at 42% phosphoric acid. try it straight if your going to compare it with anything else .
 
#556 ·
i do not use acid. stopped using it 15 years ago. that is why i invested in a blasting business . but get real. comparing a diluted product meant to clean milking machines to ospho or anything else is silly. if your going to do that dilute them both the same.
my best advice is to stay as far from acid as possible.
 
#557 ·
Actually shine, when I used the Milkstone remover in the past to remove rust, I followed it up by washing and then blasting it. Either with glass beads in my cabinet or with Black Diamond media with my pressure blaster. Since I don't have the huge commercial type blaster like you've got, it speeded up my blasting. Removing the deeply pitted kind of rust goes slow with my blasting equipment.
 
#558 ·
Roger, in my opinion it would go a lot faster if you do the blasting first to get the worst of the rust off, then use the rust remover for the more stubborn rust in the pits. Just something to think about, since the rust remover has to desolve the rust it takes awhile for it to get down in the pits.
 
#560 ·
I find the other way better.
When you are able to soak a part, you can forget about it and do something else and let it do it's work. Then the rust is 100% gone even in the deepest of pits. Afterwards, all the blasting does is get it clean and that's really fast.

I've also used it on sheetmetal that I couldn't put in a bucket to soak. I used caulk and round foam to form a dam and poured the stuff in. This roof had some fairly deep rust where the paint had peeled completely off (the smooth looking parts are where there was still paint). I didn't want to blast a big panel like that (very hard anyway) and take a chance on warpage. So, I used the Milkstone remover. After I got all of the rust removed with it, I cleaned it up with water first and then lots and lots of power wire brushing. I must have gotten it cleaned well before the epoxy as the car has been painted a year and a half now and is fine.



After water and a light wire brushing to remove the residue:

 
#562 ·
Roger I know you did not e-mail me it was one of our customers. So nobody inferred that you lied. I don't attack people personally with remarks because I don't agree with their restoration products or methods I went back all the way to page 15 of this thread and there were no posts by you and I also looked previous posts and they had nothing to do with Ospho rust removal .
 
#563 ·
It's been a long while since I posted to this thread but I've been getting the post notification emails over the years. Sometimes I would delete them without looking but sometimes I scan them and sometimes I would open the link to read the posts here. Interesting people had been posting lately (BarryK, shine and you).

Heck if I know what Milkstone Remover has in it besides phosphoric acid. As I said, I only use it for removing rust and nothing else. All I now is a few years ago I was told that it removes rust well and have used it now and then since then.
Also as I said, I made the post only to say that it removes rust in the same manner as that test and I think faster. I guess I can do a test and post photos if anybody wants.

Even beyond the phone call thing (I have no idea why you bothered to mention the name Roger and cause the confusion) you still implied that I lied about posting to this thread previously and not being honest about why I posted this morning. I have absolutely no reason to lie about anything. Why would I? If I had made that post to try to discredit you, I'd have no problem telling you that.

I also think the only reason you would get your dander up about me would be you have an insecurity of some type. If you didn't you would have blown it all off or made some small comment about Milkstone Remover and left it at that.
 
#564 ·
Btw Pat,

I did apologize to you yesterday. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt after coming on a little strong at first (and that was pretty mild).
No, I still don't agree with you about SPI epoxy not being airtight. But, I thought we were pretty civil about that disagreement. In fact, I didn't say a word again after you responded to me twice.

Willing to call a truce here but I do feel that you do owe me an apology.
 
#571 ·
hay Mike I want to ask if a Gerson respirator model# 8311p from harbor fright is a good one to use when using the ospoh and with the spi epoxy primer. it does say on box that its good for spray painting, but I wanted to see what u would say. it is suppose to be niosh approved.
thank you
arlo
 
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