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  #241 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
I 'm sure there are, Pat But this is what I know how to use and its never let me down so theres no reason for me to ever change.
How many people said this before trying SPI epoxy!?

Brian, I share your same frustration because your experiences are exactly like everything I've experienced. I've tried a number of different acid preps and rust removers, could never get the pretty results like DMB, or it just took WAY too damn long so I gave up on them all together.

I will say though, I did try a rust remover by Mastercoat a week ago on the inside of my wheel wells in an area where there was some rust and I couldn't get into it well to sand off. I had some of it laying around and I only half-assed it because I wasn't expecting it to work. I just soaked a small area of a shop rag with it and wiped over the rust area a few times, not really following the directions on the bottle either. This was surface rust. I'll be damned though if I didn't walk out the next day and a lot of the rust on the stuff I wiped was GONE. I can only imagine what would have happened had I done it correctly though. I have some heavier stuff I plan to try it on but only have real limited use.

It is a pretty viscous yellow liquid and I wore a half faced respirator when I was using it because I didn't know if the acid fumes would be irritating and I had the shop door closed.

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  #242 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:38 AM
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The rags turned black but the rusty wheels turned clean steel ??????

Ive had an idea I'll bonce off you and the other members.
one of the biggest disadvantages of sandblasting is the mess gets everywhere so everything has to be takin apar tand just an empty shell can be blasted...Right?
Mixing the abrasive with a liquid would make an abrasive slurry that would be easier to use on a Daily driver wouldnt it....
I wonder If anyone has ever mixed Ospho and blasting media to make a slurry that when your done blasting, the steel wont rust....Hmmm
Let's turn that around a bit. What if you made that ospho/sand slurry and used a dril mounted 3M mounted stripper disk to work the slurry into the pits to provide abrasive cleaning at the bottom of the pits. Would that be a succesful way of cleaning heavily rusted metal?

It seems to me the issue is getting contact between the bottom of the rust pit and the abrasive media so the rust is removed/penatrated.

Glad I don't have to deal with rust.

John
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  #243 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:50 AM
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Let's turn that around a bit. What if you made that ospho/sand slurry and used a dril mounted 3M mounted stripper disk to work the slurry into the pits to provide abrasive cleaning at the bottom of the pits. Would that be a succesful way of cleaning heavily rusted metal?

It seems to me the issue is getting contact between the bottom of the rust pit and the abrasive media so the rust is removed/penatrated.

Glad I don't have to deal with rust.

John
Just think of all the slurry this would throw around the room and on you...it would make a big mess. I don't think those stripper disks get into the pits very well. The best thing I've tried is a wire wheel and even they don't do real great. I had my Mustang roof sandblasted but I was pretty disappointed when I got it back because there was a LOT of rust in the pits...which is the entire reason I wanted it blasted in the first place, but the guy was being pretty conservative with his blasting, and understandably so, and the sand still didn't down into the pits too well.

I just had to end up soaking naval jelly on it forever, sanding the black coat of rust (because you'll hit orange again), reapplying, and going about this forever. Not saying this is the right or wrong way, it's just how I did it and is a very frustrating process because nothing seemed to work very well.
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  #244 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
Just think of all the slurry this would throw around the room and on you...it would make a big mess. I don't think those stripper disks get into the pits very well. The best thing I've tried is a wire wheel and even they don't do real great. I had my Mustang roof sandblasted but I was pretty disappointed when I got it back because there was a LOT of rust in the pits...which is the entire reason I wanted it blasted in the first place, but the guy was being pretty conservative with his blasting, and understandably so, and the sand still didn't down into the pits too well.

I just had to end up soaking naval jelly on it forever, sanding the black coat of rust (because you'll hit orange again), reapplying, and going about this forever. Not saying this is the right or wrong way, it's just how I did it and is a very frustrating process because nothing seemed to work very well.
I have some seriously bad flashbacks from Navel Jelly. I did a vintage pedal car once for my nephew. It was sand blasted as I remember but still was heavily covered with rust in the pits (didn't want them to destroy the poor little thing with the blaster). And I custom painted it an awesome candy apple red. The paint and primer came off in SHEETS like giant potato chips! Now, this was polyester primer over the Navel Jelly that right there may have been the biggest issue.

Brian
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  #245 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
How many people said this before trying SPI epoxy!?

Brian, I share your same frustration because your experiences are exactly like everything I've experienced. I've tried a number of different acid preps and rust removers, could never get the pretty results like DMB, or it just took WAY too damn long so I gave up on them all together.

I will say though, I did try a rust remover by Mastercoat a week ago on the inside of my wheel wells in an area where there was some rust and I couldn't get into it well to sand off. I had some of it laying around and I only half-assed it because I wasn't expecting it to work. I just soaked a small area of a shop rag with it and wiped over the rust area a few times, not really following the directions on the bottle either. This was surface rust. I'll be damned though if I didn't walk out the next day and a lot of the rust on the stuff I wiped was GONE. I can only imagine what would have happened had I done it correctly though. I have some heavier stuff I plan to try it on but only have real limited use.

It is a pretty viscous yellow liquid and I wore a half faced respirator when I was using it because I didn't know if the acid fumes would be irritating and I had the shop door closed.
The Ospho is no different! HOLY CRAP that stuff hit me the first few sprays! I put a respirator on and put the box fan right next to me to blow that crap out of the garage. Holy crap that was heavy, I don't want that in the least!

Brian
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  #246 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:20 AM
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Its actually more accurate to ask...... How many tried SPI and and switched to something else???? when something comes accross that is better I'll use it ...something tjhat has all the qualities of SPI epoxy that you can weld thru would be great but I'm not holding my breath...you think I want to do things the hard way? Heck no...
Heres some old pics showing what you need for heavy surface rust(No pitts) ...All I did was spray some ospho on ,scrubb it in with a red suff pad and wipe off with a paper shop towel (CLEAN ONES) Took about a minuteand you can see the rust running off as soon as it hits the rusty steel ...I dont understand why you guys are having such a hard time with it..
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  #247 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:26 AM
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my point is how will you ever know if something is better if you don't try it?
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  #248 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
The Ospho is no different! HOLY CRAP that stuff hit me the first few sprays! I put a respirator on and put the box fan right next to me to blow that crap out of the garage. Holy crap that was heavy, I don't want that in the least!

Brian
Yeah back in etching primer days I was spraying etch primer outside and the wind was blowing the overspray away from me when all of a sudden the wind changed direction just as I was inhalaling blowing the etch primer right in my nose ,I got one dose but I felt bad for two days that was wicked stuff "Variprime" I always wore a painters mask after that no matter what
but yes you should wear goggles, gloves and a mask.....safty first..
PLEASE tell me you didnt put that in a paint gun and spray it....PLEASE. You either pour it on directly out of the bottle or use a pump bottle (old windex bottle) NEVER ,
,EVER use a spray gun, first off they are made of alumininum and this will eat up the gun...the fumes arnt so bad at all when you use a pump bottle or pour it on ,you can even use a paper type mask but if you atomize it into a mist its like weponizing anthrax..holly crap ,you dont want to use anything out of a spray gun without a mask ....maybe water but nothing in THIS business

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  #249 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:31 AM
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It gave me a flash back to the time I poured toilet bowl cleaner and bleach in my sink at an apartment I was living in 25 years ago. I will NEVER make that mistake again!

Brian
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  #250 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:37 AM
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Sometimes the rust grows over the paint film like a algae. You would bet $100 that there's absolutely no paint on that panel when you spray paint remover against it the paint it comes to the surface then acids will work I spent many years sharing a booth with Capt. Lee and he sold Rust away and Metal prep these two were excellent products. Sometimes he we get a display and the rust would not budge As for pitting the acid will clean it up nicely and follow it with 2/3 coats of Mastercoat Primer/surfacer then K200 and your topcoats. this is how you treat hoods , roofs and deck lids.
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  #251 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Its actually more accurate to ask...... How many tried SPI and and switched to something else???? when something comes accross that is better I'll use it ...something tjhat has all the qualities of SPI epoxy that you can weld thru would be great but I'm not holding my breath...you think I want to do things the hard way? Heck no...
Heres some old pics showing what you need for heavy surface rust(No pitts) ...All I did was spray some ospho on ,scrubb it in with a red suff pad and wipe off with a paper shop towel (CLEAN ONES) Took about a minuteand you can see the rust running off as soon as it hits the rusty steel ...I dont understand why you guys are having such a hard time with it..
There is no question in my mind it will do exactly what you say on rusty metal Mike. The question I think Brian and I have is how to easily clean old heavily pitted rusted metal. When you have deep pits I doubt even a cup wheel gets to the bottom of them. I have used Rust Mort for years and I do not doubt that Ospho could be better but I do think that the challenge with both products is:

First, to reach the rusty areas in the bottom of the pits and getting the rust loose so it is removed and not just the surface converted.

Secondly, Once the metal is clean to make sure it is neutralized and there is no acid left that can effect the Epoxy curing.

I really appreciate both your input as well as Barry K's. If it weren't for Barry coming back and explaining that the issue with using an acid is the problem with getting it properly neutralized there really would be a lot of confusion at this point.

Potentially, the Ospho has all kinds of value to the project I am working on.

John
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  #252 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:49 AM
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It gave me a flash back to the time I poured toilet bowl cleaner and bleach in my sink at an apartment I was living in 25 years ago. I will NEVER make that mistake again!

Brian
About 6 years ago I had a lab tech who was measuring out some formaldehyde. She was a very good tech, but spilled a bit when pouring it out. I bet she didn't spill more than 20-50 ml and we had to evacuate that entire half of the building lest your mucosa get burned away and permanently preserved.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:54 AM
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Thank you Lizer for the honorable mention its appreciated I hope someone will PM me with a rusty hood thats pitted so I can show you how to level it all up without the use of any kind of fillers. Brian would you be willing to spray some pitted sheet-metal to demonstrate this for me. If you have some junk behind your house I'd like you to apply a couple of coats and throw it back outside for a while
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  #254 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:59 AM
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my point is how will you ever know if something is better if you don't try it?
My point also..... as I said I'll give it an honest shot but the bars been set pretty high...I've tried quite a few in the past and if something comes along thats better ......well you know me ....and my big mouth....I'll be starting a new thread telling everyone all about it just like I always do....You gotta realize something, these two products are THE most important step in doing a quality job that lasts, so having the best is very important.... Way more important than my pride or just being right, if im wrong I'll be the first to admit it...I've never went along with the clan just because I'm a member as a matter of fact if I can see through the Empirers new cloths I'll stand up and say so, thats one thing everyone can always count on with me...
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:00 PM
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About 6 years ago I had a lab tech who was measuring out some formaldehyde. She was a very good tech, but spilled a bit when pouring it out. I bet she didn't spill more than 20-50 ml and we had to evacuate that entire half of the building lest your mucosa get burned away and permanently preserved.
Yep, I broke my rule, FOLLOW THE TECH SHEETS! Right on the toilet bowl cleaner it said as all these products say "do not mix with other house hold cleaners" but it added "ESPECIALLY BLEACH!" and then the Bleach said the old "Do not mix with other house hold cleaners" and had in bold bring "ESPECIALLY THOSE CONTAINING AMONIA!" which the toilet bowl cleaner did! Oh yeah, you only make that mistake once! Two simingly harmless cleaners and WHAM that chorine gas will knock you on your butt big time!

Brian
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