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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2011, 07:49 AM
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I just read the wiki on lizad skin. I thought it sounded like a two part. Has anyone used it? I've always used 3M body shultz (rubberized,paintable undercoating) But I'm always open to any recomendations that'll get the monkeys off my back (3M Dupont etc...).I have seen some shops use truck bed liner, it looks good and paintable but I havent tried it myself.
As for epoxy primer.
Nobody disputes that using epoxy isnt a good idea.It's been discribed as putting a condom on your car.I'm very particular to what brand I use and found SPI has the absolute very best as a matter of fact I wont use any other epoxy and I dont dare use any other phorphric acid solution...One of the things I like best about SPI is that you can build it and it sands fairly well. personally I always do my metal work first then start out with 2wet coats of epoxy and let it cure for a few days,then I sand it with 180 and do my filler work on top of the epoxy then a few more coats of epoxy to seal everything up (like an epoxy sandwich) Theres really no need for any other primers but a good 2k (over epoxy)would be much faster and even more buildable if your filler talents arnt quite professional enough I've used The SPI 2k primer and found it was also excellent...

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70 ElCam
Good thread deadbodyman. I been getting ready to use some Ospho. Hope mine turns out as well as yours have.
Just be careful and follow the proceedure ,theres no reason your work wont come out the same way..........I guess I better get started on those fenders..
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:25 PM
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Shine..thanks for the correction on my lingo. The manufacturer suggests using both of the products in order to achieve both heat decrease and sound deadening results...spray one then the other...lots of money for the product, but it would save a ton of time vs cutting and sticking Dynamat and heat barrier insulation w/foil tapeing...the old money vs time

Still leaning to treating my rusty areas with the Ospho. One thought I had was if its important to get it down into the rusty seams and panel folds such as where door skins fold over...then how the hell do you reach down in there and rough up the scale so that a primer will stick?....I can see how easy it is on an outer panel...but not in hard to reach places...thanks Chopper
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:22 AM
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i have used lizardskin for many years. imo it is a better product because it leaves no voids for heat to get in. the main thing with insulation is heat migration . meaning some products will eventually be as hot on the top as on the bottom . i blast a car, wash it, epoxy it then soak it in lizardskin. under the dash , in door pillars , everywhere. it seals up the cabin well. under the car i use spi bed liner . it is a urethane base. i don't like any of the petroleum based coatings. ok for the bed of the farm truck but not on my hotrod.
as for acid the warnings have been given by the paint mfrs and many of the professional painters . it is up to the individual to research the claims and decide for themselves.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:57 AM
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That lizard skin sounds pretty good.
It seems to me theres a few auto manufacturers that are dipping their cars in phosphoric acid before dipping in epoxy ,If I'm not mistaken Chrysler is one.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:24 AM
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yes and they also neutralize and rinse them before anything is applied.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:25 PM
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Preciate it

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
Just be careful and follow the proceedure ,theres no reason your work wont come out the same way..........I guess I better get started on those fenders..
I guess I can't read very well. I evidently left too much Ospho on the panels and it's some thick stuff after it dries. I'm working it off with more Ospho and red scuff pads.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2011, 06:20 AM
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Thats OK, reapplying it works well for that,a second coat ,third coat,as many as you want or need just wipe it off as best you can with those shop towels...If you have an old (or el cheapo) DA with a velcro pad you can stick the red scuff pads on it to make working big areas much easier..After wire wheeling the rust that is..After it dries completely there can be blacker brushlike textures where it was left a little thick,this is normal and sands right off with 180 the blackish marks (stains) will mostly stay but it'll smooth right out for you...At this point it done its work cleaning and protecting the bare metal and you can sand it ALL right off if you want or just a quick breeze over..I use 180 grit on my DA followed by W&G and epoxy primer...
In all the years I've used Ospho I've never used water to neutralize it, it dosent need it any more than an etching primer would need to be neutraized before applying other primers.......Like etching primer it HAS phosphoric acid in it but its NOT straight Phos acid...
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:11 PM
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Life is hard, harder when you're stupid

I'm doing my engine bay and frame rails. In my haste, and not reading every sentence, I have Ospho in a bunch of hard to reach areas and tiny crevices. Will my primer and paint adhere to this without neutralizing it first? How about wire brushing it out of all the crevices?
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:44 PM
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Body fillers and Ospho residue

Even tho I know it's here somewhere : I found out the hard way that fillers won't set up if applied over Ospho treated panel. I have read that "back in the day" all etching primer needed to be removed where fillers were to be applied ... guess I should have put 2 and 2 together but ...... Anyway , I need to be certain any dents/dings areas, etc are completely free of any acid traces, obviously. I don't have any issue shooting Omni epoxy over Ospho treated and prepped areas, but areas needing ANY filler or Icing, etc CANNOT have traces of acid - what is the best way going forward I should tackle this (besides "quit using the Ospho"). This is my third Mopar resto - I'm just a weekend warrior and Ospho allows me the time I need to work with the bare metals here in soggy, wet Florida !
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiedart
Even tho I know it's here somewhere : I found out the hard way that fillers won't set up if applied over Ospho treated panel. I have read that "back in the day" all etching primer needed to be removed where fillers were to be applied ... guess I should have put 2 and 2 together but ...... Anyway , I need to be certain any dents/dings areas, etc are completely free of any acid traces, obviously. I don't have any issue shooting Omni epoxy over Ospho treated and prepped areas, but areas needing ANY filler or Icing, etc CANNOT have traces of acid - what is the best way going forward I should tackle this (besides "quit using the Ospho"). This is my third Mopar resto - I'm just a weekend warrior and Ospho allows me the time I need to work with the bare metals here in soggy, wet Florida !
It's not just filler. Polyester primers like FeatherFill and Slick Sand won't stick either.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70 ElCam
I'm doing my engine bay and frame rails. In my haste, and not reading every sentence, I have Ospho in a bunch of hard to reach areas and tiny crevices. Will my primer and paint adhere to this without neutralizing it first? How about wire brushing it out of all the crevices?
.......................YOU DONT NEED TO NEUTRALIZE OSPHO...........................
Just let the ospho dry for a day or two ,sand or scuff ,prep with W&G then prime....
However ,if it gets on painted surfaces (like your firewall) it wont dry so well and will need to be washed off with soapy water.so in this instance You should spray it down with soapy water and rinse it off then start your scuffing and prep work.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiedart
Even tho I know it's here somewhere : I found out the hard way that fillers won't set up if applied over Ospho treated panel. I have read that "back in the day" all etching primer needed to be removed where fillers were to be applied ... guess I should have put 2 and 2 together but ...... Anyway , I need to be certain any dents/dings areas, etc are completely free of any acid traces, obviously. I don't have any issue shooting Omni epoxy over Ospho treated and prepped areas, but areas needing ANY filler or Icing, etc CANNOT have traces of acid - what is the best way going forward I should tackle this (besides "quit using the Ospho"). This is my third Mopar resto - I'm just a weekend warrior and Ospho allows me the time I need to work with the bare metals here in soggy, wet Florida !
Your absolutly right fillers wont stick to acid primers or Ospho treated metal I also learned that the hard way. Epoxy does stick very well to it,so you would epoxy first then apply the filler to the epoxy.I always sand the epoxy first with 180,apply the filler and reapply the epoxy making a sort of sandwitch..
I've never used poly primers over ospho so I dont know about that but ,if I was in need of a poly super build primer I would use it over the sanded epoxy.I've used nason and Omini epoxy but they arnt very good,SPI costs about the same and as far as Im concerned its the best dang epoxy primer out there at any price....I'll post some pics of the "epoxy first" process.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:59 AM
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A lot of these old pics arnt to good but it'll give you a basic idea of how things should look as you go............I'm not doing the whole car just the roof for now...
First I chem stripped the old paint off the roof then rinced the residue with lacquer thinner and sanded with 80 da ....
Before I start with the Ospho I cleaned with wax& grease remover ...
Sorry, I dont have any pics of how I wire wheeled and treated the heavy rust
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:02 AM
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I'm just working with the roof here so I just the Ospho run down the sides and wont worry about it until I work the 1/4s
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