[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by boatbob2

When an AVERAGE (not all) body shop tells you they will lower the hourly rate by $10.00 per hour,that is B--- S---,they can just add (and a LOT of them do) a couple of hours to make up that $10.00 discount.i like to use the local 1 or 2 man shops that have a good reputation,ask around,there are many of them,i would take 3 or 4 of my buddies,and a wrecker and go pick up my car,that guy is an A-- H---,

You are right, most who offer a big discount are playing some games. Where I work we play NO games, you can't believe how straight forward we are, there is NOTHING that we get paid for that wasn't performed.

On the hourly labor, unfortunately we have to honor the hourly rate we give one particular insurance company to their insured even when it's a cash deal. That rate is $13 less per hour than our "gate rate". So we do it between the insurance company and cash jobs probably 35-50% of our jobs! It's a killer but that is the sort of thing you need to do in business. We are talking about 3.5 million$ a year so we are working in big volume.

Brian

[RetroJoeG]

Originally Posted by E.Furgal

I'd step back a moment..
allot here are cheerleading you.. and if for a few facts, I would be also.. telling you to move your car out..
but........................
1) it was a FRIDAY.. and he might have been behind, or plum forgot you where coming..
2) everyone has a bad day, and not say'n what he did/said is ok.. almost every bodyman/mechanic has called a customers car a p.o.s. when the owner is out of earshot..
3)they are letting you document the build with photo's and watch.. 2 things almost no shop is going to do..
4) if his work was questionable , you'd not be documenting it.. thats for sur

the shop might be busy, and rolling a car in and out can get old,, remember he has to make money, are you paying storage fees as you car sits waiting on you to be there to watch??

again I'd step back.. and look at the whole picture..
has he been rude the whole time?
has he been more than fair with allowing you to fick and choose when they work on it so you can be there to watch?
take the good and the bad and look it ALL over..
most cheerleading you to remove the car, would never EVER allow you to watch and document the work.. and take up shop space waiting on the next time you're aval. in their shop.. most would have no choice as their insurance coverage wouldn't allow it anyways..
if he's been a rude son of a gun from day one.. then ya pull it..
from the sounds of it.. he's got busy and as anyone with a car in a bodyshop can tell you.. you get pushed off to the side.. in the bodywork world, this is called paintjail...
I'd after mow'n over the whole deal.. go talk to him.. ask if ,now not a good time to slow the shop down as you document the build.. cause you ARE slowing the build down..
think this over long and hard.. before you pull it out.. only you know the full and complete story......

I wonder how many that replied to thread that own a shop or work at one, that let you watch and document the work.. and have the car collecting dust waiting on your aval.??
now if he's charging you storage fees, then take above and forget it..
the misquote on the engine machining.. only he knows why he through that # out..

Thanks for all of your replies and advice. I just wanted to address your questions because they are legitimate, then I'll tell you what happened today.

1)It's true, it was Friday and he could've been behind, but he's consistently pushed me off over and over again telling me it would be worked on this day and that day only to have it pushed again...Or the time he told me to come down, then when I got there, says "I'm going to get my haircut. Be back in a little." letting me wait 45 minutes. I made sure to ask "Are you sure Friday is safe?" He said "Yes, just show up in the morning," which I did, got told to come back 3 hours later, I do that and then he tells me to come back Monday. I lost money from taking the day off, still tried to be understanding and told him I'll come back on Monday. That didn't stop him from being a jerk.
2) People have bad days, but disrespecting my time on several occasions sounds like many bad days to me.
3 & 4) If someone won't let me document a restoration, I'm not going to take my business there. That was one of the things I was upfront about. Besides, it's free publicity for them when I post the photos on the restoration website. I don't think they do shotty work. They do a good job. Dealing with the attitude and lack of respect is another thing. The mechanic working on my car is A-class, but the owner thinks he's hot stuff. Maybe he is in the locality.

They're not charging me storage, but they are also not waiting on me either. I've been ready to go, but they have been the ones stalling or working on other stuff, waiting on the engine to come back from the machine shop THEY recommended. I don't feel like they're doing me any favors keeping my car in their lot.

There have been other occasions where he was rude, including when they were dismantling the engine to see it's condition. They told me they'd fit in at some point during the week and I told him to please call me when they start working on it so I can come in since the time was rather vague. No, instead he calls me at the week's end, mad on the phone and says "Where were you? You should've been here today. I could've used an extra set of hands. You were supposed to be here." I replied "I didn't know what day you were going to work on my car. You never told me." He then said "Anyways...." and continued.

As for today's events...I wanted to pull my car out, but there a few circumstances that made that tough. For one, I live in an apartment complex and they don't allow unregistered vehicles or projects on the property due to limited space. The garage I had thought about towing it to told me they won't touch something that some other shop has had their hands in and try to finish it off because they don't want the liability. In essence, I need time to find a place to have it towed to and at 8am this morning when I was supposed to be at this garage, I wasn't going to have such luck.

When I got there my car was already on the lift and the owner came out and started working on it promptly at 8am. I figured well, I'll let them get this done because it was scheduled then that will be it. He was using a blow torch to loosen the bolts holding the gas tank on with gas still in the tank, which threw a few thoughts across my mind as I stood WAAAAY back. He turns to me and says "Won't find too many people crazy enough to do that will you?"

The other mechanic came in and started working on removing the power brake booster and master cylinder and had a darned time getting the nut off which was behind the steering column and required a special wrench they didn't have.

About 2 hours into the job, the owner comes over to me and asks if I'd do him a favor and follow his son across town to the shop that does alignments (for another customer's truck) so that I could give him a ride back to the garage and they could keep working on my car. I agreed.

When I got back, it was 11am and they were pretty much done with the removal and the owner said "I'm going to bill you for 3 hours. By the way, I broke a $40 tool trying to pry that thing off." Meanwhile, the mechanic was still toying around with removing the brake vacuum reserve tank, which I didn't need done at that time, nor had I requested. When I get into the office, the owner says "Well, now it's more like 3 1/2 hours." He took ten dollars off the hourly rate but still charged me tax and insisted I pay in cash, which rings a few bells. No concessions for the fact that I told him I lost work Friday when he told me to come in and then pushed me off, nor for doing him a favor driving his son. Not that I expected it, but still.

We stepped outside and rolled the car back into place and the owner says "You're bringing her back to life. Might not be much now, but you'll be proud when you're done. Like I said, you took what I said the other day to heart." I replied "Well, what offended me more was the phone call where you told me to 'man-up' and accused me of throwing a baby-fit." He says to me "Well, I don't pull any punches. I tell it the way it is." All that did was fuel me back up. I said "I tell it the way it is too." He interrupts me and says "Sometimes that can be a good thing and sometimes not." Before I had a chance to go on further, he said he had to get back to work, shook my hand and walked away.

For a few moments I began to think maybe we could make this work and I tried to keep an open mind. The last ten minutes I was there changed all that. I'm now looking for a shop that would be willing to take it in. I'll gladly pay a storage fee to any place, so long as they are respectable, but I can't have it towed with no place to go. I feel like the older generation seems to be a little more on top of proper business etiquette than the younger generation, including my own, who seem to have big egos and a lot of attitude. It's disappointing. I'm not looking to get into a p__sing match with him because nothing I say is going to change his attitude. He's right. I'm wrong. Doesn't matter if I'm the customer or not. Overall, the quality of their work is good - but at what cost?

[RetroJoeG]

Originally Posted by boatbob2

When an AVERAGE (not all) body shop tells you they will lower the hourly rate by $10.00 per hour,that is B--- S---,they can just add (and a LOT of them do) a couple of hours to make up that $10.00 discount.i like to use the local 1 or 2 man shops that have a good reputation,ask around,there are many of them,i would take 3 or 4 of my buddies,and a wrecker and go pick up my car,that guy is an A-- H---,

And that's exactly what he did. The mechanic was removing the reserve tank which I could've done myself! I didn't even ask for him to do that. I only needed the power brake booster, master cyl and gas tank. He wanted to do it so I could compare it with the new replacement I'm getting in. Whoop-dee-do. I got billed an extra half hour after the owner already told me it was going to be three hours just moments before. That extra half hour made up for the difference in price between their regular rate and the $10 less they were charging me. I didn't even want to argue because I could just hear him throwing some more numbers at me if I did. I am so disgusted I just want to get my car out ASAP.

[AutoGear]

Joe; you realize the owner has been sidestepping people a long time when he seems this adept.

Perhaps you can post a big city near you, and some of us can tap some people on the shoulder and see if we can find you something suitable. By the way, when the fellas here say 'tow truck' they mean get a 'rollback' or flatbed.

Document all this; in case it becomes a legal matter. I'd also like to point out, unless I need a special tool for a special job- like specific helical guides for cutting gears - (we do a lot of custom work and prototyping here) thats NOT factored into your cost as a consumer. So what? every schlub who breaks a 3/8" ratchet gets to bill the customer for Snap-On and go buy Harbor Freight. Run; don't walk my friend.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by AutoGear

I'd also like to point out, unless I need a special tool for a special job- like specific helical guides for cutting gears - (we do a lot of custom work and prototyping here) thats NOT factored into your cost as a consumer. So what? every schlub who breaks a 3/8" ratchet gets to bill the customer for Snap-On and go buy Harbor Freight. Run; don't walk my friend.

I forgot to comment on that! What an asinine idea to make him pay for a tool you broke? HUH?

Brian

[AutoGear]

question for the more experienced business owners:
at what point should the District Attorney get involved? I know California and New York have some pretty hefty penalties for taking advantage of consumers. i should think screwing with the books, billing for mechanics tools, doing work thats not on the work order, and essentially holding the vehicle hostage...not to mention at least one comment that could be construed as a threat....

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by AutoGear

question for the more experienced business owners:
at what point should the District Attorney get involved? I know California and New York have some pretty hefty penalties for taking advantage of consumers. i should think screwing with the books, billing for mechanics tools, doing work thats not on the work order, and essentially holding the vehicle hostage...not to mention at least one comment that could be construed as a threat....

I have to tell you, in California it is VERY clearly written, if it isn't on the original repair order, and you have not oked it (with the shop recording it on the work order) you DON'T have to pay for it, PERIOD!

LOL, my brother had a guy ok everything over the phone and he didn't record it on the work order. The guy came in to pick up the car and looked at the work order seeing that there was no record of his call and refused to pay. He got the job for free.

The consumer is ALWAYS right in California.

But there is also the old rule when in war, and I live by it, "Is this the hill you want to die on?" Paying the jerk a few extra bucks and getting the hell out of there to enjoy your life makes more sense to me than fighting over $50.

Brian

[JGK95]

Originally Posted by RetroJoeG

Already called a tow truck and made arrangements to call him in the morning. He can't be there first thing but said he could pick it up in the morning at some point. I plan on going in earlier than 8 and telling him I've decided to pull the car because I don't want to continue butting heads and having any further problems. I'll tell him in person, that way he can't accuse me of not "manning up."

I gotta be honest, I thought that this was an AE, a joke, not real. To see this actually be real blows my mind. Nobody talks to you that way and expects to be treated with respect. Seriously? If you don't smell integrity or honesty when you walk in any shop, walk out.

Good on you for listening to the guys on this board. I'm sure when you're driving your car about this time next year and he's closing his doors due to word of mouth, he'll know what's up.

Jay K.

[1971BB427]

Sounds like it's time to look for a place with a garage, not another shop! Considering what you're paying in repairs, you could probably find a place with a garage and do the work yourself.

[RetroJoeG]

Originally Posted by JGK95

I gotta be honest, I thought that this was an AE, a joke, not real. To see this actually be real blows my mind. Nobody talks to you that way and expects to be treated with respect. Seriously? If you don't smell integrity or honesty when you walk in any shop, walk out.

Good on you for listening to the guys on this board. I'm sure when you're driving your car about this time next year and he's closing his doors due to word of mouth, he'll know what's up.

Jay K.

I wish, Jay. He's cocky because he has the city in his pocket and one of the major utility companies. He's not hurting for work so he feels like he can get away with anything, I'm sure. I think there may also be a Napoleon complex going on there, as well.

I met with a guy last night at a local shop that does body, paint and mechanical and specializes in classics and hot rods. About 40 years old and what a nice guy. He took two hours of his time last night to walk me through his shop, show me his portfolio and give me some rough estimates and plans. Night and day compared to the other jerk. He's a perfectionist and is willing to work with me. LOVES classics and seemed eager to work on my car. If I had my own space and the money, I'd try to do a lot of this myself, and I do what I can. Tomorrow I'm painting all the accessory engine parts.

[RetroJoeG]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

But there is also the old rule when in war, and I live by it, "Is this the hill you want to die on?" Paying the jerk a few extra bucks and getting the hell out of there to enjoy your life makes more sense to me than fighting over $50.

Brian

I agree. I pick my battles. The less stress the better. I'm getting my car out of there before week's end. I think I may have found the guy for the job. (See previous post)