OXY~ACETYLENE !!!!! Safety!!!!!!!!!! - Page 3 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Garage - Tools
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 07:53 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 61bone
All connections get tested with soap solution with every tank replacement. I consider even a occasional bubble as a leak.
I assume that your years of experience have taught you more about these valves than what the people that build them know so I stand corrected.


Please don't take offense I said everyone to their own opinion (more than once) and for everyone to be their own judge so I just stated my opinion and why I take that position, no reason for anyone to get bent out of shape. As far as the people who build these valves I feel they must have had a reason to build them with the double seal design and I just explained it the way it was explained to me many years ago, it made sense to me then and still does now. Add to this the fact that I have seen several times a leak at the valve stem sealed by opening the valve all the way, just as it was explained that it would, and I have, again IMO, good reason to to take the position that I do. It is a matter of choice and most people do it, and will continue to do it, the way you do and I fully understand the reasoning behind that but I have reason to believe that the other method is a bit safer and simply offered my opinion and explained why I feel that way. I certainly never intended to offend anyone I only wanted to present another point of view that I and some others have on this subject. I am not alone and have discussed this with some very knowledgeable people in the past, some of whom agree and others who did not but for sure this is not something I dreamed up and I have seen it in print more than once also I know of several MSHA inspectors who are very adamant about opening these valves. Not trying to argue my point here now I am just trying to explain why I take the position I do on this.

The whole thing is getting blown out of proportion anyway because any safety issues are going to be so slight which ever way someone decides to do this that it really becomes a non-issue and certainly nothing to create hard feelings over.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 08:17 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
I have been following this tread with some interest. Below is a picture of my cutting torch after it was returned by a friend. I just about freaked out and told him he was lucky he didn't get burned severely or worse. I made it very clear how unhappy I was with condition and it was replaced promptly.

Vince

Wow, what did he do to that thing? That looks like an older Victor 1600? I have one of those things in an 18" length (the tubes from the handle to the head) that I have owned for many years. I always liked that big ole' long torch for gouging and grooving and never had much use for one of those danged arc gouges as long as I had that big Victor and a good no. 10 or 12 gouging tip. Those Victor 1600s have about the smoothest easiest to control cutting valves of anything I have ever used and IMO is probably the best torch ever built. I mostly use a two piece Victor for cutting and for the convenience of being able to replace the cutting head with a heating or welding tip but for precision cutting that big one piece outfit is going to be hard to beat, I hope he replaced it with another one like the one he ruined?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 08:33 PM
Crazy Fast on Ice's Avatar
Loose is Fast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 56
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
In my opinion, an I express it is only my opinion, get rid of your acetylene and go to propane. It will burn cleaner, hotter, and is all around safer.(theoretically) I have worked for years in fabrication mainly with thick plate. We cut anything from 1/2 to 8 inch on our oxy fuel table and trimmed the skeletons of those plates with a hand torch. I also had to braze custom fabbed radiators and silver solder tubing together. I think the best thing about the propane though is safety in transportation, unlike acetylene which should never fall/be laid down, and you can get it at alot of places even on a sunday afternoon. Like I said though this is just my opinion and for those who like acetylene all the power to you, but ever since I made the switch I'll never go back.

By the way if your curious you need around 100 PSI of oxygen and a big old tip, with at least a 100 pound propane cylinder to prevent freeze up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 08:50 PM
302 Z28's Avatar  
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North Texas
Posts: 10,837
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 86 Times in 73 Posts
[QUOTE=oldred]Wow, what did he do to that thing? [QUOTE]

Near as I can figure there must have been combustion in the handle.

Vince
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:30 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Fast on Ice
In my opinion, an I express it is only my opinion, get rid of your acetylene and go to propane. It will burn cleaner, hotter, and is all around safer.(theoretically)

Hotter? I will agree completely with you about Propane in most respects but no way is it hotter than Acetylene, not by a long shot. We used a lot of Propane in my shop because it was cheaper, a lot cheaper, and for most jobs it would work about as well as Acetylene (I don't think we ever had a tank of Acetylene hooked up to our pattern torch). The maximum temperature for an Oxy/Acetylene torch is a little over 5700 deg F (5720 deg IIRC) and the temperature for Propane and Oxygen is around 5100 deg F. This misconception is usually attributed to proponents of alternative gases using misleading statements such as "Propane/Propylene/etc has more heat" which is true in a sense, there is nearly twice the BTUs in a cubic foot of Propane than a cubic foot of Acetylene. This does not mean that Propane burns hotter however just that it will produce more BTUs and go farther per cubic foot of gas burned than Acetylene but since they don't burn at the same rate the Propane is not nearly as hot, 600 deg makes a big difference! As far as cleaner this too is a play on words because although without the addition of Oxygen in the proper ratio Acetylene burns a lot dirtier than Propane once it is mixed properly Acetylene burns cleanly. Propane is a LOT cheaper to use in most cases and arguably safer but it can do little or nothing that Acetylene will not do better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:42 PM
Blazin72's Avatar
You got a leaky spark tube...
 
Last wiki edit: Rearend removal
Last journal entry: General Lee
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Union, WA
Age: 32
Posts: 2,868
Wiki Edits: 19

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I had an acetylene bottle that had a leaking valve. I didn't need soapy water to find it either. I could hear it leaking past the stem the minute I cracked open the valve. Needless to say, that bottle was exchanged for another one.

When I got my new hoses they came with check valves between the regulators and hoses. Do any of you guys have these? I'm a little late to this conversation so please forgive me if this has already been brought up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 10:00 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Blazin, that is exactly the type of leak I have been talking about and they are not all that uncommon just most of the time not that bad. If you had of opened that valve fully the leak would have stopped and the valve would have been positively sealed by a tapered metal to metal seal just like the seal that shuts the tank off when the valve is closed and the tank would have been safe to use. If you find another one open the valve fully and you will see what I mean, this is why the valve has the double seal design. That has been my whole point of this discussion, if that leak had of been less noticeable you could have very well missed it leading to the very real possibility of a fire around the tank valve if the valve was only partially opened but if the valve was opened fully the leak could not occur even if the stem seal is bad.

Last edited by oldred; 01-22-2009 at 10:08 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 06:50 AM
Crazy Fast on Ice's Avatar
Loose is Fast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 56
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
there is nearly twice the BTUs in a cubic foot of Propane than a cubic foot of Acetylene. This does not mean that Propane burns hotter however just that it will produce more BTUs and go farther per cubic foot of gas burned than Acetylene but since they don't burn at the same rate the Propane is not nearly as hot, 600 deg makes a big difference!
I guess I had a miss conseption of BTUs, however most should know that propane and acetylene cutting tips are different and the propane tips allow higher btus and you also hold and setup the torch differently than when you use acetylene. This guy seems to explain it quite well.
http://www.cousesteel.com/AndysPlace...Acetylene.html

Red your right it is not hotter, however anything over 3,000 degrees and high enough oxygen psi to push through it and we're cutting steel. I still believe it is safer too.

Thanks for the insight though red I know why gas welding doesn't work worth a dang with propane now. No shielding gas produced that guys sight explains it all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 09:33 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
I have seen that guys site before and he is one of those proponents of Propane that, while he is telling the truth (sort of anyway), resorts to mis-leading statements to try to make his point. For instance he says, - [So when they say propane gives off less heat it is not entirely correct (plain wrong actually)]. - He is right in one sense BUT he goes on to say, - [They don't do it just because it's cheaper but because the available heat from propane is much higher]. - Sure the available heat from a cubic foot of Propane is higher than a cubic foot of Acetylene but since the Propane is burned at a much different rate that fact, while technically correct, don't mean squat! Then he does admit that Acetylene is 5720 deg vs Propane 5112 deg but he tries to play that down by saying - [(The difference doesn't really matter as the real concern is for the thermal output It is the amount of BTUs available)], - that is nonsense because that 600 deg is a heck of a lot and makes all the difference in the world! It is the BTUs available during a given time period and the concentration and intensity of this heat that matters, not the total BTUs of a given amount of fuel. Take a pound of hardwood and let it decay away to powder, as it combines with Oxygen and decays it gives off heat and over the time it takes to decay it should theoretically produce the same BTUs it would as if it had been set on fire and burned but in which case will it get the hottest? The guy at that site goes to great length to mis-lead by saying things like "more heat" instead of hotter.

His claims about Acetylene tips vs Propane tips producing more BTU/HRs is also only a half truth, again he is attempting to mis-lead into believing that although Propane itself may not be as hot the tip will somehow make up for this and produce a hotter flame but there are two things wrong with what he is saying.

One, just as with the comparison of the BTUs per cubic foot of fuel is mis-leading as to the temperature of the flame because the BTUs (or total amount of heat) is produced over a longer period of time, the greater amount of BTUs produced using the Propane tips is spread over a larger area. This results in a (compared to Acetylene) cooler preheat flame applying heat over a larger area and while this does work it is not necessarily better than a more concentrated hotter preheat flame and indeed it can be argued that it in most cases is not quite as good.

Two, the tip comparison is comparing apples to oranges because in order for the propane to even work as well as it does will require a larger tip delivering more gas over a given time period, you should notice that he does not even mention tip size in his comparison. There really is no good way to compare Acetylene tips to Propane tips because they are designed so different and deliver fuel and Oxygen in different ratios than Acetylene tips. Generally any given numerically sized tip (labeled) for Propane will deliver much more fuel than the same sized (numerically not physically) tip designed for Acetylene, for instance a no. 3 size propane tip vs a no. 3 size Acetylene tip.

There can be many reasons for choosing Propane over Acetylene just as there are many good reasons for choosing Acetylene over Propane but guys like the one on that site simply muddy the water by trying to twist the facts around to suit their needs and can easily lead someone into making the wrong decision. That guy is clearly trying to make it sound as if Propane is hotter and better than Acetylene in just about every way but he destroys his creditability in the first two paragraphs. Propane torches are nothing new and have been used for many years so why are they not more popular if they work better? Especially when cost is considered. The fact is the advantages of Acetylene vs Propane are such that most welders are willing to spend the extra money to use Acetylene in spite of the fact that Propane is cheaper and arguably safer, however Propane is certainly worth the consideration and may very well be a very cost effective means of accomplishing the task. As I mentioned before at my shop we used a lot of Propane because of the cost but Acetylene was used on the service trucks (ever try to use propane outside in the wind ) and often in the shop because there are many tasks that Propane simply will not do nearly as well as Acetylene. The choice of whether to use Propane or Acetylene should be based on the real facts and not highly slanted and twisted half-truths like that guy is trying to use, he sounds exactly like one of those Propylene salesman that used to come by the shop and spount that BS!

Last edited by oldred; 01-27-2009 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 06:39 PM
Rob Keller's Avatar
AKA:"SLOWRIDE66"take it easy!
 
Last wiki edit: How to post pictures on a forum
Last journal entry: 85 Suburban
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central Florida U.S.A.
Age: 48
Posts: 4,297
Wiki Edits: 38

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
When I worked @ Damrons in Crystal River NOW LKQ they had Propane or Natural gas {I don't know what the difference is}in a central system for each of the dismantling stations.

It took a while to get used to the difference from Acetylene.

The Difference in cutting ability Vs. Acetylene is night & day ,keep in mind I did not do any precision work .

If you try to cut these newer composite exhaust {I think it has a % of stainless in it} it was very hard to get the metal hot enuf to "fold" the metal out of the way.

{Having no control over the pressures from the tanks}

To me it took a hell of lot longer & thus a waste of time & money.




Rob
__________________
"SlowRide66"

"Illegitimis non carborundum"
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Crankshaft Coalition Master List of Hotrodding Forums
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 09:22 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rob, that is one of the shortcomings of Propane vs Acetylene, when you run into some of the alloys that require a higher preheat or as in the case of some of those exhaust pipes with the outer layer that needs to be burned away. This is not to say that Propane should not be considered because in a lot of cases it does work just fine and when it does it can be a real money saver! For general cutting in the shop we used more Propane than Acetylene and as I mentioned earlier I don't think we ever used anything but Propane on the pattern torch, it was also used more on our track torch than Acetylene. Besides being a problem with some of the harder to cut materials there were other draw-backs to Propane such as not being able to satisfactorily weld with it (you can of course braze just fine). Precision cutting such as cutting out a broken bolt or stud from a threaded hole that is difficult with Acetylene becomes nearly impossible with Propane, using Propane with a grooving or gouging tip is slow and cumbersome compared to using Acetylene and as I mentioned before it is simply a PITA to try to use outdoors if there is much wind blowing.

I am not exactly sure what that guy in the link is trying to say, he argues that Propane has more heat even though it is not quite as hot, Just like a true salesman he twists just about everything he says around to make it fit his needs, for example in his effort to discredit an often quoted reason for using Acetylene vs Propane he states - "So when they say propane gives off less heat it is not entirely correct (plain wrong actually)" - which in itself is a mis-statement. The argument is of course that "They say" Propane is not as hot , NOT that Propane "gives off less heat". He is fully aware that Propane does not burn as hot and even admits that but he makes every effort to play down that fact. He even goes so far as to agree that Propane will not preheat as fast as Acetylene but plays this down by saying that Propane will preheat "faster than most people think it will". He says the main reason that Propane is not as popular as it should be is that people just have not learned how to properly use it! Is he joking? We have been using that stuff for all these years and he thinks we have not figured out how to use it yet?

I have seen this guy's site come up before as an example of the advantages of Propane but other than being more economical to use exactly what is his point? What is the point in trying to convince someone Propane has "more heat" if Propane will not preheat as well as Acetylene (which he admits) and with less preheat ability what is the big advantage in using it to cut with (other than cost)? His pitch is somewhat convincing at first glance but if you really look at it he contradicts just about everything he says which is a shame really because Propane does have it's good points and a properly presented argument for using it could be useful. He ends the article by saying "The performance difference is not as bad as some Acetylene advocates would have you believe" and that is one statement he makes that I do agree with. IMO Acetylene, other than from a cost standpoint, is a much better all-around fuel but Propane is not as bad as a lot of people think and despite it's limitations, depending on a person's needs, could possibly be a better choice due to lower cost, ease of acquiring and very possibly it is safer to use.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 10:17 PM
nitrocorsair's Avatar
Nitro, meat for the beast
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 38
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just to chime in on a couple of point s here that haven' t been touched on that I think need explanation. Oldred has done an outstanding job of explaining and he obviously knows his stuff, I just want to elaborate.
Propane's' biggest use comes in the form of recovery time. When using a large flame tool, such as a rosebud or similar heating tool, propane is a safer bet because the inherent nature of that gas lends to a more consistent fuel supply than acetylene in high demand applications. Acetylene is a gas suspended in a liquid( acetone) in order to make it stable. The acetylene gas needs to "boil" out of the acetone to make a head which is the usable portion of the fuel. If that head is depleted, it will create a vacuum that will pull the liquid into the regulators, hoses and torch rendering your equipment junk. More importantly, it could cause a flashback and blow the torch up in your hand. This is why its important to size your cylinders to the job at hand. Manifolding of acetylene cylinders is necessary in high-demand applications. Propane, on the other hand has a very high recovery time and can supply high output tools much more efficiently than acetylene. The BTU's are lower, but the output is higher.
That being said, unless you are demanding in excess of 150,000 BTU, you will be fine with a standard acetylene cylinder.
As far as how far to open a cylinder, that's going to be an argument on many fronts but here is the long-n-short of it; at "normal" circumstances, you will not see a flow difference between 1/2 turn open and 10 turns open on an acetylene cylinder. On average, you are working between 3 and 9 PSI of acetylene. 1/2 turn can supply that in spades. I have cut through 28 inches of solid steel with 9 psi of acetylene and 1/2 turn on the cylinder.
On high pressure gas( oxygen, argon, helium, C25), you need to open it all the way. The reason is because the bonnets and stems in these cylinders are made of brass which, being a soft metal, takes a beating from the 3000 PSI average of the gas charge. By opening them all the way, you alleviate the stress on the threads by seating at the top of the valve there by preventing leakage. CO2 is a low pressure gas and does not need to be opened all the way, but it is a double-seating valve and is not a bad practice to get into.
On the other side, acetylene is packed to a 210 PSI static pressure at 72 degrees Fahrenheit. This will change based on ambient temperature being that it is a suspended gas.Much like propane in this respect. On a 25 degree day here in upstate NY, that new cylinder of acetylene may only read 160psi. Same cylinder with no change in volume on a 90 degree day in August may read 260 psi. Acetylene valves are not double seating valves so opening them all the way has no effect on the performance or sealing of the valve. Oldred, I am not saying you are full of bull, maybe you are just getting past the loose portion of the valve but there is no top seat in an acetylene valve.
Oldred is right, it is a knee-jerk move and only worth a second or two but for no gain or no loss, why not buy that second or two if you have it?

Last edited by nitrocorsair; 01-27-2009 at 10:58 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 10:55 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrocorsair
it is a knee-jerk move and only worth a second or two but for no gain or no loss, why not buy that second or two if you have it?


The reason IMO and as Rob and I have tried to explain is that when only opened 1/2 turn there is the possibility of Acetylene leaking around the soft seal of the valve stem (two examples of this have been described in this thread by two different people and I have seen it several times myself) but when fully opened this leak will be sealed by the valve thus preventing any leak. That's what this whole disagreement about the valve opening has been about, is that extra second really worth the risk of a leak around the valve stem? These leaks are usually small but not always however any amount of leakage around the valve stem is too much. I firmly believe opening the valve all the way to be the safer way because of the positive seal it provides and eliminating the risk of a leak at the valve stem outweighs any chance that extra second of shut-off time would make any difference. This is more than just my opinion and as that safety rep from so many years ago explained the manufacturers designed the valve to provide that positive seal when opened and the stem seal was never meant to be the main seal. However it seems that most people just don't consider this and just can't seem to get past that quicker shut off time so the 1/2 turn has become so ingrained that for most it probably will never change.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 11:06 PM
nitrocorsair's Avatar
Nitro, meat for the beast
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 38
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree oldred, it is an ingrained thought, but the fact is, there is no top seal in an acetylene valve. Its a low-pressure valve design and it only has a bottom seat.Its more like the hose bib on your garden hose than it is an oxygen valve.
I'm not saying by opening it up more, you didn't seal a leak. In fact, on an older valve, its more likely than not because you got passed the worn portion of the bonnet. Hell, I have had some cylinders that if you pushed on the valve one way or the other, you could stop a leak!
I guess all I am trying to say here is that the safety of the operator lies in his ability to recognize a problem. I trust everything, but I always cut the deck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:42 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
You have me puzzled now, back in 68 it was explained to us, and we were shown a diagram of the valve, and in the cut-away of an Acetylene valve in a welding manual I have it does indeed show the valve to be of the double seal design. Also on the valves I have had leaking enough to actually hear the gas come out opening the valve stopped the leak as it bottomed out, these leaks were much too great to have been stopped by getting past a worn spot in the stem. I have never actually dissembled one of these valves (actually there are several designs) but as I said the cut-away diagram at that safety class back years ago and the picture I have in this manual both show a double seal design, regardless opening the valve fully will prevent this leak and I have seen this myself on several occasions. The bottom line is the seal can leak at the stem, I have seen this several times and two different examples have been posted here but opening the valve fully will prevent this leak.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Garage - Tools posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring Neutral Safety Switch / EZ-Wire Kit horvath Electrical 15 01-20-2008 12:35 PM
neutral safety switch on a stick? chirpn69 Electrical 14 03-05-2007 04:30 AM
Suggestion-Shop Safety Section 3100 Special Hotrodders Site Suggestions and Help 4 02-19-2006 04:07 PM
El Camino/ neutral safety switch stinky jinx Electrical 4 03-15-2005 10:00 PM
neutral safety switch zipfactor Electrical 2 08-30-2003 07:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.