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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2003, 04:07 PM
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I was under the beast yesterday and I did the old run finger in exhaust trick and there was just a hint of black dust not soot just dust, does this mean that my O2's must be running ok if there isn't a big sign of running rich? Check out my non-EGR lol . Steve


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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2003, 04:24 PM
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[quote] Just why was a plain Jane motor able to pass these tests? <hr></blockquote>
Well I can only speak from the experience I have. Growing up in Jersey everything got what we called a standing idle sniff test for inspection. The main difference is the standards varied according to vehicle year. A 1968 vehicle did not have to meat the same requirement as a 1988 vehicle. This being the case a 1968 mustang for example could be outputing 475 HC's and still pass inspection while a 1988 mustang might fail at only 150 HC's. The 1988 is running cleaner but still failed state inspection. This was one big reason why many people tried to hold on to pre-1975 vehicles, their emmissions standards were much more relaxed because they were produced before cat converters were required by law. The states could not expect peoples cars to meet strict emmissions requirements that weren't in effect when the cars were produced. All my cars have always passed state inspection, even my mustang has a sticker on it and passed for many years in Jersey before I moved to Maine. It's also allowed like 5 or 600 HC's and a whole lot of CO's because of it's age. Hope I answered your question well enough.
Steve, most likely your sensors are working or you would have a check engine light on. They may not cycle as well as when they were new (we call it 'getting tired' in the field) but they are most likely still getting the job done.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2003, 04:40 PM
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I don't think I have check engine light...All I have is a dummy display. The basic "check engine temp" "oil pressure low" "charge system" and so on...Never seen it say "you screwed up your motor" ....Steve
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Old 03-24-2003, 07:13 AM
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Chuck. Have you performed the cylinder balance test available at the end of the engine running test? It will pinpoint which cylinder is at fault if that is the problem.
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Old 03-24-2003, 11:27 AM
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Quick update for everyone, the O2 sensor has solved most of the problems. The swing readings I was getting on recovery appear to have been "re-learning" related. I tried yesterday to reproduce the symtoms and was unsucessful no matter how hard I tried. Interestingly enough the CID code came up which indicates a bad cam position sensor during my testing (tach stopped reading), so that sensor is next. Cylinder balance tests came out fine and my remote tach indicated near perfect idle drop on each cylinder while the computer was running it's balance tests.

Looks like I should have driven the car for awhile to let the computer get cozy with the new components, everything is good now except for the CPS. I might add that the rad leak turned out to be a poor seal on the block heater (someone pulled out the o-ring and siliconed it in?) which in turn sprayed the rad with coolant and caused the starter to get flooded which destroyed the brushes. The domino effect in it's finest form.

It looks like as long as I can keep POLICE CARSfrom hitting the darn thing I should be OK. :p Insurance adjusters look at it Wednesday.
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Old 03-24-2003, 03:12 PM
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Glad to hear things are going ok chuck. bc brought up a good point that is easily overlooked. Even with all the advances in the systems the speed that the info makes it to the scanner is still rather slow. What I have found is that on scanners like my Snap-On or Fords NGS if you reduce the amount of PID's you're looking at the info travels faster. If I only bring up O2 sensors I get a much more accurate view of what they're doing but if I bring up twenty sensors the rate at which I see them operate is greatly reduced.
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Old 03-24-2003, 04:03 PM
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That makes a lot of sense DM, I can't thank you enough and the others on this thread who have helped me with this problem. The learning curve was steep but I feel closer to the summit than before. It certainly has illustrated how hard a job mechanics have trying to fix these cars in as short a time as possible (especially without an extended test drive), I can certainly understand why some just start throwing parts at it when you consider the diagnostic time involved on some of these things. It seems you either pay for diagnostic time or parts, at least with parts your getting actual components with your money even if your chasing your tail half the time. I guess the happy medium is somewhere in-between.

One thing is for sure, Ford not publishing the MAPS and circuit logic has to be some kind of crime. Having to guess or use intuition to determine actual operating parameters and logic takes a lot of experience and time looking at bad components and how they affect the system as a whole.

My hat goes off to those of you who do this for a living. The profession is certainly under appreciated especially when you consider the number of different makes and models and powertrain combinations, the possibilities are truly endless.
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Old 03-24-2003, 04:22 PM
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[quote]Having to guess or use intuition to determine actual operating parameters and logic takes a lot of experience and time looking at bad components and how they affect the system as a whole. <hr></blockquote>

In this business this is what seperates the men from the boys and what seperates the A,B, and C techs in the field. It's also a big reason why even with education there is still so much that just can't be taught, it must be learned in the field. I thought I knew alot when I got out of college until it came time to apply what I had learned with my first hard drivability repair. Unfortunately there is also no lesson anywhere for correctly diagnosing that chaffed wiring harness hidden behind the firewall . Either way glad we were all able to help, had a lot of fun with this one.
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Old 03-24-2003, 07:57 PM
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I hope something else goes wrong with your car now so we can all do it again! Good thread. I learned a lot here.
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Old 03-24-2003, 08:23 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by 2-manytoyzs:
<strong>I hope something else goes wrong with your car now so we can all do it again! Good thread. I learned a lot here.</strong><hr></blockquote>

ditto.
do I hear a nomination for

"THREAD OF THE YEAR"
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Old 03-25-2003, 02:09 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by 5.0Towncar:
<strong>I don't think I have check engine light...All I have is a dummy display. The basic "check engine temp" "oil pressure low" "charge system" and so on...Never seen it say "you screwed up your motor" ....Steve</strong><hr></blockquote>

Steve, just to let you know that for whatever reason certain year Fords didn't have a Check Engine light in the dash. These cars still retain fault codes just like any other car only they don't turn on any light so the customer doesn't know. I have had to explain more than once to customers who don't want to pay for diagnostic code reading because they didn't see any warning light. The other posibility is your car has a light but the bulb is blown. You may want to see if you can find someone who can hook your car up to a scanner and check for any codes.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2003, 08:46 PM
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I cant find my 88 electrical book right now, but I think the 88 didnt have a light. The 89 continental was the first to get check eng lite if I remember correctly.
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