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Old 07-15-2010, 01:23 PM
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PAINT BOOTH... should I buy one?

Need advise here please,

I've been shopping around for a paint booth and the cheapest one available is a chineese model that cost $18.000 uninstalled

I see this things have a diesel or gas heater, what is it for? the average temperature here year round is in the 80's and I have never had any problems drying the paint jobs.

I was thinking of building myself a booth, I can make it as nice as the commercial units but I will be deleting the heater, and the builder/dealer's profit, this will save me a bunch of money.

there's a sofisticated filtration system for the air that leaves the booth to catch paint vapor etc, I will not be using that, no laws regulate that over here, I will just install a/c filters for the incoming air to the fan/blower.

the question is, what's this heater for? operator's comfort and or paint job dryer when the temp is low? I don't need that.

Since no envinromental concerns or low ambient temperatures are issues here, can I get by with a self made booth in my shop?

thanks

Augusto.

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Old 07-15-2010, 10:28 PM
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been there

Yes, the heater is for operator comfort. If you want to dry paint quicker get an infrared set up. Blowing hot air will just blow crap over your paint. If there is no regulation then just keep in mind you don't want a flash fire. Just saying, explosion proof motor and sealed lighting would be advised. Keep your electricals out of the booth. Use fire resistant materials. Make sure you have a fan that can move enough air, and that the air coming in is as clean as possible, good luck.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:47 PM
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I already have this infrared lamps, like two feet long, that I use in my plastic bottle blowing machine, they are cheap and the temp is easily adjusted with a simple rehostat, I can mount them on a tripod stand, pretty easy.

So I would be wasting money buying a booth that I can make myself, I've priced aluminum stock, the same used for windows, doors and stuff, it's cheap an can be shaped to make a pretty nice booth, this is great! this will left cash available for other important tools I'll be needing in the shop, there's this Spanesi straigthening bench that is something I must have, that's a real money maker tool, costs here $35.000 a bunch of money but I think it's worth it, it will pay off itself... I hope...
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:42 AM
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Anyone knows of a suitable size blower to be used on a 22 x 12 ft booth?

the catalog I have says 23.000 cubic meter per hour, but I don't find that spec on any blowers site,


please help.
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:22 PM
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you use the CFM of the fan and determine how many air changes per hour that you need/want to determine fan size..

So if you have by way of example a 100,000 cuft space and a fan that moves 25,000 cfm then divide 100,000 by 25,000 and that fan should in raw numbers do a complete air change in 4 minutes. now that is going to be affected by the filter capacity and venting of the booth to be able to flow that much air.

Sam
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:31 PM
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The heater is used for force drying paints in production shops. Not for operator comfort. You can force dry clear at 140 degrees and be able to color sand it in about an hour.

When you paint 10 cars a day, like Maaco and Schieb, you need to move the cars out of the paint booth as fast as possible.

I've seen quality paint booths for as little as 7 grand.

Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
you use the CFM of the fan and determine how many air changes per hour that you need/want to determine fan size..

So if you have by way of example a 100,000 cuft space and a fan that moves 25,000 cfm then divide 100,000 by 25,000 and that fan should in raw numbers do a complete air change in 4 minutes. now that is going to be affected by the filter capacity and venting of the booth to be able to flow that much air.

Sam

Sam,

How often do you think I should do a complete air change? your 4 minutes is just an example or is that a norm to follow?

If I blow too much air inside the booth, wouldn't that create a bad air stream that will not let paint deposit in the car's surface? like triying to paint outside in a strong wind?

that grille over which the car rolls in, should there be a water pit under it, to catch dust?

I don't think I would use the booth more that twice a day, in the best case, if I ever do more paint jobs than that, then I would have the money to buy a ready made booth, with heater and all the gadgets... hope some day I will..
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countilaw
The heater is used for force drying paints in production shops. Not for operator comfort. You can force dry clear at 140 degrees and be able to color sand it in about an hour.

When you paint 10 cars a day, like Maaco and Schieb, you need to move the cars out of the paint booth as fast as possible.

I've seen quality paint booths for as little as 7 grand.

Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars

Frank,

Do you remember a brand name for those low cost paint booths your'e talking about? or a dealer name/address?

thanks.
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:53 PM
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if you build your booth 14 ft wide with 10 ft ceiling and 24 ft long it will be approx 3360 cu ft in size..I like a downdraft booth design myself with almost the entire ceiling in filter medium..the outlet is located in the rear of the booth at floor level..In Ecuador you most likely will not have to deal with OSHA or NFPA..In a homemade booth I would suggest a mobile home furnace arranged so it blows in to the upper plenum which can be ran on the sumner fan position..blowing into the filter plenum leaves the fan outside and not exposed to particulates and solven vapor. OSHA wants 100 ft per minute airflow through the booth but this is not too critical as everyone needs to tune their booth to suit their needs. I do use a bigger set of fans on both intake side and exhaust side as we can install a set of dampers to regulate air flow. Most Pro booths that I have seen have regular flow and purge settings on the fans..one setting while painting and one for evacuating the booth..Hi and low heat settings are available so one can warm the metal on a car brought in from cold storage and then normal heat.

In any case just to give you some ideas..

Sam
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:45 PM
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now I'm understanding how this things work, you're helping me a lot thanks,

how about the other question:

that grille on the floor, over which the car rolls in, should there be a water pit under it, to catch dust?
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Old 07-20-2010, 03:14 AM
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A spraybooth always look very simple, but not always is so simple.

As someone said if youíre planning to paint professionally, some cars daily, everyday, youíll save money and headaches buying a proper spraybooth, if it is just something for your personal use, trying to have something better than a fan or some plastic in your garage... should be ok, but take in consideration that you still have to pay a good bunch of money, and only you know if really worth. Once this said:

- The spraybooth must be pressurized, this is; you must use an air generator able to generate more air than the maximum air flow that the inner grid lets pass, for this you need to make your numbers, know the booth volume, floor surface, and air flow that the inner filters let pass (synthetic filters, donít use water, or youíll get cloudy clears in many cases). It is also interesting to be able to adjust the air flow from the generator, this way you can control much better the inner pressure, to do it properly I would also recommend you to have "something" measuring the inner pressure and sending a signal to a controller, telling to increase or decrease the fan speed, and adjusting so the air flow.

This is the most important part, if you do this properly, youíll have something similar to a spraybooth, if not youíll just waste your time and money, THERE CAN NOT BE AIR MOVING INSIDE THE BOOTH, if you just make an air flow moving from a big fan to the floor youíll have more than one headache, better to keep the bucks in your pocket.


The heater is not for your pleasure of course... it is used to warm the air, making the paint dry faster of course, but also should be good to control the humidity of the air, in Ecuador youíve a good temperature, but also a nice humidity in some areas... if you donít have any control over it would be difficult to use waterborne paints, but even with solvent you could have problems, especially with clears. Take in consideration that youíre throwing thousands of litres of air to the car, this makes anything that is in the air a huge problem, much worst than just let the car dry in your garage.

As youíll increase the airflow, have also in mind that youíll need a good filtering system, specially for the air input, heat and dry it, or youíll make another mess in the car.


Not trying to be a ****, just trying to make you understand that a spraybooth is not so simple, not so complex in fact, and if you finally decide to do it by yourself better to know all this things, than to spend your money and get nothing, have more problems than before, that could be...

Iíve seen bodyshops (professional bodyshops), without spraybooth, with just some plastics pending from the roof, with just a couple of fans in a wall, painting in the street... I mean, you can paint without the best conditions in the world, true, but if you spend your time and effort trying to improve your conditions... better to get something than nothing, donít you think?


P.D.- Buena suerte con el proyecto
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:30 AM
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buenas reflexiones, muchas gracias.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto
buenas reflexiones, muchas gracias.

If thereīs something in my hand to help... just shoot
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto
Frank,

Do you remember a brand name for those low cost paint booths your'e talking about? or a dealer name/address?

thanks.

No I don't, but they advertise in Rod & Custom and some of the other mags.

But I believe if I was ever going to need another both, I would just build it myself. The main thing would be the lights. Lots of lights.

Another thing, if your fan pulls you door shut, your intake filters are in need of replacing or you don't have enough of them.

Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:16 AM
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found some centrifugal fans that suit the booth size I want, man they are pretty big babies, 23.000 cubic meter/h 10 hp wow!

that's not a problem though, I have a 45Kw 3 phase transformer in my shop, my lathe has a similar motor, I bet that fan makes some noise..!!
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