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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2006, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302/Z28
Actually the gel coat is basically a sprayed on polyester film, if the body is polyester which most are. I agree, the only time I would use epoxy on a new (unpainted) body or part is if that gel coat has been breached down to open glass cloth. In that respect you need the superior sealing qualities of an epoxy. Otherwise a couple of heavy wet coats of a quality 2K primer/surfacer is quite sufficient to give you a good base to begin blocking.

Vince
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Why do I have a feeling that this might turn into a real doozy of a thread.

Basically you are corroborating my less than learned thoughts about priming automotive 'glass and it flys in the face of many !!! Oh well, this is what make it fun.
Dave

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2006, 11:55 AM
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i block vettes with 100 grit before i start to resurface. i use only epoxy on them . no 2k at all.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
i block vettes with 100 grit before i start to resurface. i use only epoxy on them . no 2k at all.
Shine,

DuPont says that works too - but at least a 'vette started out fairly smooth, with a gel coat (most of 'em - early ones didn't) and wasn't a specialty market item that may or may not be smooth. 'Vette paint jobs, from conversations I've had with owners are not easy and probably need the epoxy due to gel coat crazeing.

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Old 09-11-2006, 12:51 PM
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i am moving towards no 2k at all here. the epoxy has better adhesion, hold out and hardness. it cures better and has little to no shrinkage so far. on a steel car i see no reason to blast it, epoxy it , 2k then epoxy seal it. i prefer the harder finish for blocking . i have not been pleased with primer for some years now. i flat refuse to use dupont or ppg any more. my project "inderweed" will be an epoxy only job also. i just want something more durable than 2k primers under the paint. especially when dealing with 50+ year old plastic. the bodies were called "glass re-enforced plastic" in the beginning.
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Old 09-11-2006, 01:00 PM
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I tell ya what.. I will leave this thread be..I don't have the energy or patience right now to argue over whether epoxy is better than 2k.. Those who know the superior quality's of epoxy, and yes even on fresh glass, already know why..

Vince nothing personal man, I just plain don't agree with you, and out of respect I think I should bow out, I'm tooooo easy to get pissy like some hormonal chick right now.. Have a good clean discussion guys
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Old 09-11-2006, 01:10 PM
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Since we now have these new products even on the boats I scrub them with comet cleanser and a red scuff pad and then use the wax and grease remover..

Then DA with 80 grit and then shoot the epoxy primer..

Then usually by then it will be the next day I will go over it with a gray scuff pad to see that any trash is removed and fix any scratches that I find..

If I have waviness or something I like the hi-build for that and then do my blocking..saves time over using the 2k for blocking..

then it is spot with epoxy and shoot the base..let that set over nite and shoot the clear..

On the boats I like to wait a week with the boat out in the sun before it is used to allow the new finish to cure completely..

With the new paint systems the repair with gel coat is about obsolete unless it is a spot repair on a hull or something..

Just the way I like to do things..Your results may vary..

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Old 09-11-2006, 01:23 PM
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well we're mixin potato's and cornbread here. i am so far removed from the production world i would not get past the door. epoxy was used a bunch in the old days. carving cars out of lead and bondo left a lot of bad stuff to hide. what i wanted for my kind of work was "liquid metal". give me something i can spray on block out and paint. no shrinking or other weird stuff to come back to haunt you. here in central texas you best let it cook in the sun before you work it. because it will hit the texas sun and cook sooner or later.
even other epoxies i've used just did not do it . one big difference is spi epoxy smells like strong glue. thats epoxy. the matrix i used had more of a flat dry finish and no smell.

if we all painted the same what could we argue about? and how could we learn. hey i'd still be shooting lacquer if i could. a good 20 years of my tour was with lacqure and enamel.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2006, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine

if we all painted the same what could we argue about? and how could we learn. hey i'd still be shooting lacquer if i could. a good 20 years of my tour was with lacqure and enamel.
Shine - the last cars I did were acrylic lacquer and enamel then I had to start traveling for a living - a long time ago.
And it cost about $50 to paint a car as well

From what I see there are at least 3 (or 4 or more) opinions in this thread.


2k then finish
epoxy then 2k
epoxy only
oops, the 4th
epoxy then high build (acrylic, maybe)

and probably all are right, just what you are used to

and, Bondo, don't leave now, we'll try to keep the soapbox shouting down to a whisper - no GMG thongs allowed, either.
Dave
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:05 PM
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I'm not getting into any arguments here as just don't have the energy.

Consider this, just think about it and then use whatever you want on your fiberglass car:

Epoxy has been considered a great product because its waterproof for years this has been the great reason to use epoxy. Well bull the reason epoxy is the best product to use on a fiberglass body is because it is "Air proof"
(because the way it cross-links) Do you think your polyester primer, 2K Primer, or the paint on your car is waterproof, if it is not then its not air proof either.

Now when thinking about that what happens to fiberglass as it ages?
About two years ago I wrote on here the best thing you can do for an old vette is sandwich the panels in epoxy, such as two coats inside the door as well as outside the door and that will stop further deterioration.

Just think about the above and forget the better adhesion and the flexibility gained. Then use what you want!

How I have done every vette of mine or for other people since 1972.
Strip.
Sand glass with 180.
Epoxy
Polyester primer (sometimes used) and block with 100-120
2K primer block primer with 180
Re prime and final sand with 320.
The next four vettes setting around here the epoxy will take the place of all primers like Shine is doing on his.

Take it for the two cents it worth.

Last edited by BarryK; 09-11-2006 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:19 PM
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One more thing to consider!

What is the number one problem with an old vette? Stress cracks but a lot of the stress cracks are not stress as much as the glass drying out and losing solvency.

What happens if a panel is air tight? Can't deteriorate.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2006, 07:42 PM
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the 57 was so bad there were places you could dig a hole with your finger nail. this body was only supose to be around 10 years.
it sat outside all day today. everytime i went by it i tried to cut it with my fingernail. by the end of the day after it cooled it is as hard as gelcoat. 2k will never get this hard. i believe i have shot my last 2k.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:47 PM
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http://www.streetrodding.com/sr/inde...showpic=101914

Shines vette:
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2006, 05:57 AM
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Interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Looking at and reading this throws a new worm can into the thread.

Shine - are you using SPI epoxy for a sanding primer rather than 2K or other sandable product? Where do you apply body filler - fiberglass or steel components ('vette/steel car)?

This may change my mind about surface prep if that is the case as I was under the impression that other than scuffing epoxy with 180 or Scotchbrite after it had sat past a manufacturers recoat time was about the extent of post application work.

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2006, 06:14 AM
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on the glass i do as much repair as possible before epoxy. on a steel car i do my blasting then epoxy the entire car. then do my repairs
i am using epoxy for filling. the spi vette has a full gal on it and has cured for a week [ several days in the sun]. it will get hard blocked with 100 then 220. after a few days i will epoxy it again. i see no reason to sandwich 2k primer between epoxy. ease of sanding or cost are not considered in how i do a job. i want a rock hard surface to work on. 2k just seems to stay soft and continue to shrink for a long time. it sands too easy . epoxy gives you time to work the surface down flat. i wet sand and sand paper will suction into a low and remove 2k from the low. this is why i started gluing my paper years ago. we will soon know how this comes out. i have 3 cars i'm building right now so it is spread out some. gives me plenty of cure time. i hope to have color on it in a few weeks. you can see this car on my web site. it was really butchered by someone who had no clue. these cars never had gelcoat on them so the epoxy is closer to the original finish.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
on the glass i do as much repair as possible before epoxy. on a steel car i do my blasting then epoxy the entire car. then do my repairs
........on them so the epoxy is closer to the original finish.
Food for thought - I should be ready for some initial priming by the end of the week on some components on my Brookville '31, which has turned into a real bodyman's nightmare because of their lack of quality control - poor fit, high and low places - big areas, plus the fact that they slobbered acrylic red oxide .002 to .010 thick. Since I haven't found a shop that can media blast, only sand, am having to sand with my DA, a 7"grinder and by hand. I'm running into a problem that you don't face in Texas in September - cool to cold weather and I need to get it painted before the snow flys. It is 41deg. now!!

Like the '37s on your site, my favorite year Ford - had a humpback and a club coupe in the far distant past.
Dave
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