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Old 08-10-2004, 06:28 AM
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Paint fogging - argh!

Sunday I painted my '56 Mercury, and it was late when I finished pulling off the masking..



Being tired and having more crap in the garage on the floor than I felt like moving, I left it in the driveway overnight.

I'd been working at this all day Sunday, doing the final sanding in the morning, then shooting the white; going to a birthday party for my sister-in-law in the afternoon while the white dried enough to tape, then masking and shooting the blue (midnight blue metallic)

The paint is all acryllic enamel (Duplicolor off-the-shelf stuff, this is a project where getting it done fast and cheap are the chief concerns) For the white, I used a hardner, but I only had enough hardner for the batch of white I mixed, so the blue didn't get any hardner.. And, of course, the blue on the roof is where I got the fogging.

So, what can I do about it? My dad had a little Mirror Glaze #5 or something, and tried it on a small spot successfully with some careful hand rubbing.. What would be the best product?

I know well enough that with unhardenned enamel, there's a number of things I shouldn't do or should wait a month+ to do, but I want to clear this up before the Woodward Dream Cruise which is just under 2 weeks away. (not to mention sewing seat covers, bolting the body on in all but 2 places, repairing and painting the gaping rust holes in the drivers side fender and reassembling all the trim, body panels and interior)
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:46 AM
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You cant just leave out hardener when you feel like it. Paint curing is a chemical process and you have pretty much ruined yours by leaving out a critical component. They only way you are going to fix it is to remove what is there and repaint.

Chris
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Old 08-10-2004, 10:01 AM
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Umm.. okay, that doesn't really solve the problem within the constraints I have to work with..

I've never heard of acrylic enamel requiring hardener, and I could believe that there may be cases where that's true, but this is certainly not one of them. I'm certain that if this paint did require hardener, it would be sold at the same place I bought the paint - which it wasn't.

Ruined is such a subjective word.. I enjoy the cars I work with and since my time and money isn't unlimitted - and very often since reconditioning used parts is my only option for having parts at all, I don't have the option of just throwing things away that someone thinks isn't good enough. Believe me, with such standards of what constitutes ruined, this car should've just gone straight to the crusher.
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Old 08-10-2004, 11:15 AM
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The fogging was caused by dew, due to fact you did not have hardener in it.
Your in a real bind here because of no hardener for sure.
Here are the options as far as cheapest and easiest.

Try to polish out with a 1500 type compound in about two weeks-most likely its going to do you no good.

Or scuff top and re-shoot with a hardener in the paint BUT here is your problem with this, enamels reach a sensitivity period and could lift itself when you spray it. The one thing you do have in your favor is the fogging effect the moisture will delay the sensitivity time. If you do re-coat it should be done asap to hedge the bet in your favor.
Also if you re-coat I would sand with nothing courser than a red scuff pad and another thing to consider would be apply only one wet flow coat since the color coverage is already there, the reason for this is the second coat will hold the solvent in the first coat longer and give them more time to wrinkle the paint.
Did we save any money?
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Old 08-10-2004, 11:53 AM
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Save money? With a $40 gallon of paint.. sure, and I would have enough left out of that gallon to repaint the rough even after I paint the drivers fender and the cruiser skirts, it's just that what I don't have is enough time between now and Aug. 21 to sand, mask, spray and leave the car alone while it dries.

But this is more of a fun car, and in the interest of having a car ready at all and in the interest of getting this done so I could work on other more serious car projects, I went into this one knowing that I'd be cutting corners, and having no problem accepting the fact that I'd be doing well to end up with a 20 foot car.

Assuming I go the route of polishing, is there anything in particular I should avoid? I'm guessing I don't want to do something that seals the paint since the solvents are still trying to get out.. I don't know so much about polishes and such.

And is there any role for a heat lamp, or is that something better avoided?
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Old 08-10-2004, 12:06 PM
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If you have an Infrared this will draw out the any moisture and may take care of any buffing.
Regular heat lamp (bulb type) go with extreme caution and probably best avoided.
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Old 08-10-2004, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Slipangle
Ruined is such a subjective word.. I enjoy the cars I work with and since my time and money isn't unlimitted - and very often since reconditioning used parts is my only option for having parts at all, I don't have the option of just throwing things away that someone thinks isn't good enough. Believe me, with such standards of what constitutes ruined, this car should've just gone straight to the crusher.

I am not saying the car is ruined, but the paint is IMO ruined. I should have elaborated. Like Barry outlined, you can give the buffing a try, but it will likely do you no good. You can paint over it if you like, but then you have a situation where the paint is really thicker than it should be and will be prone to chip. So, it is just my opinion, but I think you should sand it down and start over using the hardner. I know these things because I have done similiar things in the past. I also tryed to recoat bad acrylic enamel paint job instead of sanding it back down. The paint chipped in dime sized places if a rock or something hit it. To me that is unacceptable.

Chris
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BarryK
If you have an Infrared this will draw out the any moisture and may take care of any buffing.
Regular heat lamp (bulb type) go with extreme caution and probably best avoided.
Hmm.. well, I was thinking along the lines of heat for the purpose of accelerating the solvent evaporation so that other options become a little more practical or to reduce the risk of lifting the paint during buffing.. Are you saying that it could possibly solve the problem done by itself?

Of course, a nice baking like it would've got at the factory would be great, but even if I had access to that, right now I'd have the problem of the body potentially sliding off the frame (haven't bolted it on yet since repairing the floor, but that's next)..

One thing I do have is a non-contact pyrometer, so I could watch the temperature while I had the heat lamp on.. Would that do me any good for the 'extreme caution' part, i.e. if I had a temperature range to watch for.. Such as, if I DID have access to bake the paint, what temperature would that be, and if I set up so that a heat lamp kept the surface at that temperature for X period of time, would that help the situation - either to clear up the problem, or at least reduce the risk of lifting the paint when I do try to fix it?

Quote:
Originally posted by TurboS10
I am not saying the car is ruined, but the paint is IMO ruined. I should have elaborated. Like Barry outlined, you can give the buffing a try, but it will likely do you no good. You can paint over it if you like, but then you have a situation where the paint is really thicker than it should be and will be prone to chip. So, it is just my opinion, but I think you should sand it down and start over using the hardner. I know these things because I have done similiar things in the past. I also tryed to recoat bad acrylic enamel paint job instead of sanding it back down. The paint chipped in dime sized places if a rock or something hit it. To me that is unacceptable.

Chris
No worries.. If I had a problem with a paint job that might not be good for much more than an event 2 weeks down the road, I'd likely have avoided duplicolor paint (or, for that matter, acrylic enamel) and not tried to squeeze the spraying both colors into one day.
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Old 08-10-2004, 03:01 PM
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A simple baking will not help at this point. An Inferred-short wave or medium wave will draw any moisture out of the paint along with solvents.
As far as your heat lamp you may try 100 degrees for an hour but don't think it will do you much good. But you never know!
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Old 08-11-2004, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Save money? With a $40 gallon of paint.. sure, and I would have enough left out of that gallon to repaint the rough even after I paint the drivers fender and the cruiser skirts, it's just that what I don't have is enough time between now and Aug. 21 to sand, mask, spray and leave the car alone while it dries.
To sand, tape and reshoot it should only take a couple of days. It's going to take you a day to polish it out. I'd scuff it up with some 600 wet, mask it off after it dries and use hardener this time around. The day after it's shot you should not have to do anything else to it. Just don't let it set outside.
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